Jump to content


Photo

RM6 Wish List from TMG refugee


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
51 replies to this topic

#21 Mike M. 77

Mike M. 77

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Posted 30 October 2014 - 09:17 PM

Ksquard's suggestions 8 (F3 repeats last entry) and 9 (repeat last and recent source citations) are really very useful tools when doing a lot of data inputting. They can really help cut down on errors (and reduce fatigue). I saw the handwriting on the wall and bailed out on TMG for RM once and for all in early 2012, and I still occasionally slip up and hit F3 during late night keyboarding sessions.

They're not as flashy as some suggestions discussed on the boards, but adding this error-reducing, time-saving functionality deserves strong consideration.



#22 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3982 posts

Posted 31 October 2014 - 07:29 AM

4a. Place List 

   TMG Master Place list has a button that gives a list of the events using that place name (person's name, record #, event,      date, place). It would be nice to be able to search the Place List for a portion of the place name other than the initial place. 
4b. Place Names
   TMG handles each part of a place name in a separate field, so that a place name can have 7 or more fields: Address,            Detail, City, County, State, Country, Parish (Phone field).  I could put my cursor in each field, press F2 and get a                    searchable list of existing placenames.  This becomes necessary because many of my county, state, country fields are          complicated because I often have to put the county (city, state, country) name as it was (and is), etc.  With TMG I could          create a new city by using an existing county, state, etc.  With RM, I'd have to start from scratch with every new city in 
   every new county.  In RM I can't even search the Place List to find another city in that same county.

 

As I said with respect to another of these wishes from the world of TMG, this is an interesting and somewhat tricky wish. There have been many times when I have wished that RM's place handling would work at least somewhat in the vein you describe. Without getting into all the nitty-gritty details, I would describe my wish as wishing that RM had better support for multiple levels of political subdivisions of places - understanding what a country is, what a state is, what a county is, what a parish is, what a city is, what a town is, what a district is, etc. (and I'm only touching the surface when you consider all the variations in political subdivisions there are all over the world).

 

And even more than that, I certainly wish that RM were not so married to the Place Name Standard. RM views its integration with the Place Name Standard as a very good thing. Quite to the contrary, I view the integration as a very bad thing. The Place Name Standard may be ok for storage of place names (and I'm not even sure about that), but the Place Name Standard is certainly not acceptable for display in reports.  RM is totally flexible in how you enter your place names, and it doesn't force you to use the Place Name Standard. But if you don't use the Place Name Standard, there is some very nice RM functionality with respect to place names that is not available to you. My point is this very nice functionality could easily be made available for place names that do not follow the Place Name Standard.

 

But back to my first paragraph, I have often wished that RM had better support and understanding of multiple levels of political subdivisions such as you describe for TMG. But in my dotage I'm beginning to wonder if maybe just a free form place name field without any program defined structure might be better after all. For example, how are TMG place names exported in GEDCOM? Are the TMG exported place names compatible with other genealogy software? I really don't know.

 

The reason I ask is that I make heavy use of RM's Place Details facility for things like cemetery names for burial events and hospital names for birth and death events. Previous to RM's introduction of Place Details, I would include things like cemetery names and hospital names as a part of the overall unstructured character string for the Place Name. I like the Place Details approach because of how much better it makes things look in narrative reports. But I'm beginning to wish I had never started using RM's Place Details feature because of how incompatible it seems with other genealogy software. I think RM is is desperate need of a GEDCOM export option where the Place Name and Place Details become combined in the GEDCOM. In the same vein, if you could just wave a magic wand at RM and give it all of TMG's abilities to deal with political subdivisions, what would happen with exported Place Names? And what would happen with the Gazetteer, with CountyCheck, with Geocoding, with Mapping, etc.? Could TMG style capabilities for Place Names co-exist within RM's existing capabilities for Place Names?

 

Jerry



#23 TomH

TomH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6448 posts

Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:31 AM

Jerry, TMG's Place structure does not survive GEDCOM because GEDCOM has a much simpler structure. So Detail, City, County, State, Country are all concatenated to the one GEDCOM PLAC tag with the option to include or suppress commas for blank values, e.g., ",,,, Canada" or just "Canada". I forget whether Address might go to another GEDCOM tag or also to PLAC. RootsMagic's direct import from TMG maps City, County, State, Country to Place; Detail to Place Details and, maybe, ignores Address. RootsMagic exports Place to GEDCOM PLAC and Place Details to a GEDCOM ADDR on the same level which some argue is not kosher GEDCOM. Standard PLAC does not support a sub-structure, unlike ADDR which does but is conventionally used for Repositories, not for Events. So,

Are the TMG exported place names compatible with other genealogy software?

Yes, insofar as other software support GEDCOM in the same way. The corollary is that TMG itself is no more compatible with its export than is other software as it is faced with the same problem of parsing the PLAC value into its constituent parts. That is made easier if all the commas are present, e.g., ",,,Georgia," is probably the US state, not the east European country.

And what would happen with the Gazetteer, with CountyCheck, with Geocoding, with Mapping, etc.? Could TMG style capabilities for Place Names co-exist within RM's existing capabilities for Place Names?

I think the granular structure would improve CountyCheck (it would never confuse a City and County). I don't see any impediment to such a structure working with all of these features - either they already have a corresponding granularity or RootsMagic merely concatenates its grains to suit. RootsMagic's sentence template variables would need to be enhanced, replacing or supplementing the current [Place] and [PlaceDetail] variables. TMG's variables are representative: see TMG-RootsMagic Sentence Variables & Format Codes for a comparison. 


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#24 Ksquared

Ksquared

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:40 AM

Kim, your SQLite query is at Names - Move Prefix to empty Suffix.

Thanks!


Kim D


#25 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:48 AM

CountyCheck only checks County and Country, not City. The database used for CountyCheck is a third party database and was not compiled by RM.

#26 Ksquared

Ksquared

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 31 October 2014 - 12:13 PM

RootsMagic's direct import from TMG maps City, County, State, Country to Place; Detail to Place Details and, maybe, ignores Address. 

RM didn't ignore my entries in Addresss.  It put the contents of TMG Address in RM Place Detail.


Kim D


#27 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3982 posts

Posted 31 October 2014 - 12:21 PM

The database used for CountyCheck is a third party database and was not compiled by RM.

 

Yes, and I just had a little fight with it. I had a Social Security Death Index entry for a person who died in 2006 and whose last place of residence according to the SSDI was Aurora, Arapahoe, Colorado (the SSDI at ancestry.com does not use the word "County"). Aurora is sort of a sister city of Denver, too big to really be called a suburb. The last place of residence in the SSDI does not always indicate where a person died, so I was trying to figure out how to enter the place of death into RM.

 

Obituaries sometimes list place of death, so I checked with the Denver Public Library who reported no obit for the individual in question. I'm not a close enough relative to be able to order a death certificate for the individual in question. For some reason, I was suspicious of the "Arapahoe" because I was based in Denver during military service many decades ago and I remembered Arapahoe County being south of town instead of where Aurora is (not the greatest of recollections, by the way). So I checked with RM's Gazetteer which reported that Aurora is in Adams County, Colorado. The truth is that Aurora is partly in Adams County, partly in Arapaho County, and partly in Douglas County. Since then, I have been able to contact a distant relative who confirms the individual died in Aurora as opposed to having died while on vacation in Florida or some such. But I still don't know which county to enter. i would only point out that if all I had known was that the person had died in Aurora and if I had relied on Gazetteer, I would have entered into RM that the individual died in Adams County which possibly is not correct.

 

I realize that RM buys the database from a third party, but I wish the data were more reliable and I really wish I could edit the data to make any needed additions or corrections.

 

Jerry



#28 John_of_Ross_County

John_of_Ross_County

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 700 posts

Posted 01 November 2014 - 12:38 PM

At least in Ross County, Ohio, the county website for the Auditor clearly indicates the township, village, or city for a given address and the associated school district.  With open enrollment for schools, the students may possibly go to adjacent school districts.  The Board of Elections website gives the polling location and precinct designation and the most recent political party registered for primary elections.

 

I wish that RM had some kind of dual place naming for an old historic name translated over to the current name.  West Virginia is a prime example.  It became a state Jun 20, 1863.  So any cited info with stated residence in WV before that date is wrong.  It has to be Virginia.  County boundaries change just as townships and cities.



#29 TomH

TomH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6448 posts

Posted 01 November 2014 - 02:33 PM

I wish that RM had some kind of dual place naming for an old historic name translated over to the current name.

I try to keep the contemporary name in the Standardized field and the Historic name in the Name field. Thus, the same physical place may be multiple Places, all with the same Standardized name and geo-coordinates. Unfortunately, there is no variable to bring out the Standardized name in event sentences. Nor is there anything to relate the name to the era.


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#30 Ksquared

Ksquared

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 01 November 2014 - 03:39 PM

I wish that RM had some kind of dual place naming for an old historic name translated over to the current name.  West Virginia is a prime example. 

I put the current place name in parentheses.  For instance,

Abigail Atwater b. 3 Mar 1659 New Haven, New Haven, Connecticut, (USA).

     (Although there could be an argument for New Haven, (New Haven), (Connecticut), (USA).)

Reginlind d. 958 Lake Zurich, (Schwyz), (Switzerland)

Guta von Habsburg d. 1297, Prague, Bohemia (Czech Republic) 


Kim D


#31 Ksquared

Ksquared

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 11 November 2014 - 05:42 PM

Some further comments . . . Did anyone else have trouble reading my posts in this font with this color?
RE: 1. Prefix/Title (lengthy title obscures name)
TomH was nice enough to write a(n) SQLite utility to move Prefix/Title to Suffix.  First, perhaps I should ask if I'm the only one with this problem?  I was just on the verge of using the SQLite utility, but then chickened out.  It is a fix for the problem, but does cause another minor problem with people that have both.  I would still rather have option that lets me choose to have the Prefix/Title shown after the given- and surname.  If I am the only one with the problem, then I will use TomH's utility, and RM Support shouldn't bother making any changes regarding this problem.  Renee - Any idea if or when the name-field order change might happen?  I can't decide whether to go ahead and use TomH's utility or wait until I'm allowed to choose how the name is displayed. 
 
RE: 13. Prefer TMG Person Detail 
I hadn't fully explored the Timeline, People and Descendants views.  They provide most of the information on the TMG Person View with Siblings and Descendants, the way I had it set up (I was hoping to provide a screen shot but couldn't find a way).  RM does require switching back and forth between these views.  TMG combined Family View and Timeline View into one, and then TMG let me add Siblings and Descendants in smaller windows at the bottom of the screen, so I had all the information on one screen (can't provide screen shot).  RM is more 'clicky'.  I don't know if there's any interest in trying to make the information available with fewer clicks.
 
Not available on any of these Views:
  •  children's spouse.  
  • siblings of Father or Mother (other than going to the screen that shows the Father or Mother as a child).  TMG's answer was to allow multiple Views available on one screen.  Sorry I couldn't figure out how to provide a screen shot.
 
Again, if I'm the only person who would find this useful, I'll drop the subject and RM Support can ignore the request.
 
I have another question:  I'm having a problem with SortDateSameDayOrderCustom.sql.  
When I run SortDateSame I get an error message:  ESQLiteException, no such collation sequence:_RMNOCASE
Where do I go to get help?  I didn't think I should query SQLite tech support with a problem that is specific to a single specific RM error.  
 

Kim D


#32 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:53 PM

Kim, please don't post your main post in purple. That makes it hard to read with my aging developing cataracts eyes. My signature is purple, but it doesn't matter if anyone reads it.

Take the Descendants view back one generation and increase the number of generations of descendants shown by changing the slide on the Descendants view. Then you can see the spouses you want.

One reasan I have always used Family Origins and RootsMagic is the uncluttered screens. Since I now use an Acer tablet with a 10.1 inch screen that is even more important to me. The Timeline view is about as cluttered as I want to deal with, and I often close the Sidebar and open it only when I need it when using the Timeline view.

#33 TomH

TomH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6448 posts

Posted 11 November 2014 - 09:12 PM

I have another question:  I'm having a problem with SortDateSameDayOrderCustom.sql.  

When I run SortDateSame I get an error message:  ESQLiteException, no such collation sequence:_RMNOCASE
Where do I go to get help?  I didn't think I should query SQLite tech support with a problem that is specific to a single specific RM error.  

SQLite tech support would not know what you are talking about. For support for what you find on SQLiteToolsForRootsMagic wiki, you can post a message on the page and the author (frequently me) may respond. For your specific problem with the queries you find on the page Dates - Same Day Sort Order, your SQLite manager needs to have the appropriate extension loaded for the fake RMNOCASE collation, as described at:

RMNOCASE - faking it in SQLiteSpy

RMNOCASE - faking it in SQLite Expert, command-line shell et al

 

Alternatively, you can use the feature Events > Set Same Date Sort Order in the RMtrix utility downloadable from Bundled Utilities - RMtrix


Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#34 hlein

hlein

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 01:22 AM

@Ksquared

You are not alone. Because of the problems you describe and others that I have posted earlier, I have suspended playing with RM for the time being. At the moment, I don't see a reasonable way to make it work for me.


Regards

Helmut


#35 Renee Zamora

Renee Zamora

    Advanced Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPip
  • 8792 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 11:30 AM

I simply have no idea on priority ranking or projected time frames enhancement requests are scheduled for release. Even if I did I wouldn't be able to divulge it. I do know that this was a new enhancement request that I added to the tracking system, so no one else every requested it. Which may or may not even mean anything. 


Renee
RootsMagic

#36 TomH

TomH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6448 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 12:01 PM

I simply have no idea on priority ranking or projected time frames enhancement requests are scheduled for release. Even if I did I wouldn't be able to divulge it. I do know that this was a new enhancement request that I added to the tracking system, so no one else every requested it. Which may or may not even mean anything.

Which one of the 13 initial requests or the indefinite number that followed are you saying is "new"?

Tom user of RM7630 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#37 Renee Zamora

Renee Zamora

    Advanced Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPip
  • 8792 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 02:20 PM

Well that was stupid of me not to refer to it, sorry about that. It was to this question "Renee - Any idea if or when the name-field order change might happen?"

 

Ugh! now I see what you are referring to TomH. Today is not my day! I shouldn't be allowed to operate RootsMagic at all today without supervision. Might be coming down with something, already took 2 naps today. I will let you all just play nicely by yourselves for a while. 


Renee
RootsMagic

#38 Ksquared

Ksquared

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 02:52 PM

Which one of the 13 initial requests or the indefinite number that followed are you saying is "new"?

My original question was the Prefix/Title one.  I couldn't decide whether to use your utility (moving Title to Suffix) or wait until the option change is made part of RM.  Renee is saying it was a new request.  I wasn't sure if the change would be useful to others.  Apparently there are some TMG refugees, like Helmut (see above), who haven't chosen a replacement program for TMG.  Making these changes might convince them to go with RM.  I imagine those changes would be better made sooner rather than later to snag those TMG refugees - before they choose another software, and I don't know how many of those uncommitted TMG refugees are still considering RM.  


Kim D


#39 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 05:01 PM

The main project at RootsMagic right now is rewriting RM to also work on a Mac for version 7.

So, don't expect there to be any changes in the way Indexes sort any time soon.

Also, just because we suggest changes does not mean RM is obligated to make them. The suggested changes may or may not be made or not made in the same way we invisioned them.

TMG users that are evaluating RootsMagic should evaluate it as it is today. Not evaluate it on what they think it will be or wish it to be in the future.

#40 VirginiaBl

VirginiaBl

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 101 posts

Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:46 PM

Kim wrote:  Did anyone else have trouble reading my posts in this font with this color?

 

 

Yes.  I usually skip over those posts.. 

 

Virginia