69 replies to this topic

[koornalla]

Wayne,

 

RM supports one global role for principals... Principal. If you want a particular global fact type role sentence for the Principal, you need to copy that sentence and replace the default principal sentence.

 

To put it a different way... You cannot use the 'Head of Household' role for the fact type Principal. You can use the 'Head of Household' role sentence to replace the Principal role sentence.

 

The only way to have different principal sentences is to use the local sentence in a fact.

 

Jim

Hi Jim,

 

I did not have a TMG fact called Principle. I changed the Principle role within all the TMG Census facts to "Head of Household". Subsequent testing has proven, that for all my TMG custom Census records, anyone who occupies the Principle role for any TMG census fact (including the ones where I left it as Principle) will not show up in RM as being one of the people sharing the Census fact. RM will assume the person occupies the Principle role and therefore modifying the RM Principle role sentence for all RM census facts to reflect that the person was head of the household is the workaround.

 

I just thought I should clarify that.

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[Jim Byram]

Wayne,

 

I added one word to my earlier message to make it clear that I was talking about the _role_ Principal for your census fact types.

 

The person owning a personal fact is the Principal. Those with witness roles (whether Witness or some other role) are the ones who show in the shared list. (Technically, you can add a principal to the shared list but I can't imaging why RM allows that.)

 

Your last sentence is exactly what I was saying that you should do.

 

Jim

[TomH]

I'm seeing something kind of odd in my latest TMG > RM import.  I have customized witness roles for the Death tag as follows:
[R:Survivor] survived the death of his wife, [R:Deceased], <[D]>
[R:Survivor] survived the death of her husband, [R:Deceased], <[D]>
 
Let's say Harriet Smith died on 9 Oct 2014, and was survived by her husband, Harry Smith
 
On import, the resulting RM template is:  [Person] survived the death of his wife, [Deceased], <[Date]> .  The resulting sentence in the Edit Person screen and narrative reports is:
Harriet Smith survived the death of his wife, , on 9 Oct 2014 .
 
And of course, that's not what I intended.  What I want to see is "Harry Smith survived the death of his wife, Harriet Smith, on 9 Oct 2014.
 
Is something like this even possible in RM?  I set it up in TMG so that, particularly in the case of multiple marriages, I'd have a reminder in the Details window of when each marriage began and ended.  In the Timeline view in RM, the death date of a spouse is already there.  The presence of this sentence in narrative reports is somewhat less important to me, although it would be nice to have.

If Harriet is the Principal for the Death fact but you used the role Deceased for her, and Harry has the witness role Survivor, it looks like RootsMagic got the roles reversed. Harry's sentence should be something like: [ThisPerson] survived the death of his wife, [Person], <[Date]> . 

You might get even trickier and come up with a gender sensitive sentence template which could switch between his wife/her husband so that one role covers both.

[CherylCh]

Got it! I changed the sentence for the Survivor role in the Death fact type to:  [ThisPerson] survived the death of <%his wife, [Person],|her husband, [Person],> <[Date]>.

 

Problem solved.  I've started a list of "things to change in RM after I do my final import" to keep track of things like this.

[koornalla]

Hi all,

 

This is an update on the issue I presented on 09 Oct with the principle of a TMG Census event not appearing in the corresponding RM Census event with a role but the  person concerned appearing with the RM Principle sentence assigned to them . Given this person was normally a Head of Household in my data, my workaround was to change the Principle sentence for all the Census sentence facts to one the was a Head of Household sentence.

 

As I have become more familiar with RM I have discovered that a better option is, while in the edit screen for the Head of The Household person, to share the event and to add this person by name as someone in the database, It's a much better option as this person now has a visible role but a more labor intensive one as you have to do this manually for each HOH person.

 

The question I now raise is "Is this process sqlite scriptable so the changes can be made in bulk"? My gut feeling is "no" but I thought I would ask the question.

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[TomH]

I think you are making the Principal also a Witness, i.e., a sharer (or is that sharee?) of his own fact/event. There is a downside to that - that person now has the same Census fact twice on every tabular display. You could probably suppress the Principal sentence in the narrative report with a custom local sentence comprising one space character " ".

 

A SQLite script could assign a Head of Household witness role to the Principal of each Census event. BTW, it is advisable, I think, to name the role with no embedded space characters, e.g., "HeadOfHousehold", if you anticipate using the rolename in certain switches. I ran into this with the gender switch which did not like <%Parent of Bride%...>. 

[koornalla]

Hi Tom,

 

Of course you are correct!! So Plan B goes down the tube and my original plan (Plan A) is looking a bit shaky. Plan A involved changing the RM principle sentence to reflect the principle being the Head of the Household. This would be true in many situations but not all situations. On further investigation I have situations where the Principle to the Census fact is living alone (technically he is Head of the Household of one person). I also have Census events where the Principle is a border in a shared house, a live-in gardener, a live in maid, a live-in groomsman etc etc etc. The these latter situations in TMG I saw no point in listing anyone else other than mine because I could allocate any role I liked to the Principle.

 

So how does this work in RM? Do you ignore roles completely and leave the Principle as Principle? Do you have the real Head of the Household as Principle in the Census fact even though you are not interested in this person? Do you allocate a dummy Head of Household (I assume an unconnected person would not come up in reports) so that you can allocate a role to your person?

 

I am interested in how normal RM people handle Census facts in situations I have just mentioned.

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[TomH]

I have Description enabled for the Census fact. If the person I want to record is the Head of Household, I leave it blank - thus the Principal sentence says he/she appeared in the census. When shared, the role sentences refer to that person as head of household. If the person I want to record is in a household headed up by someone I wish not to record as a person, I enter the Head's name in the Description field and the sentence switches to say my person appeared .. in the household of [Desc]. 

 

My current roles and sentences:

Role	Sentence
Principal	[person:first]<?[Desc]| is listed in the household of [desc]| is listed [PlaceDetails] [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>.
Witness	[ThisPerson] appeared in the household of [person] in the census< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Spouse	[ThisPerson] appeared as the spouse of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Son	[ThisPerson] appeared as the son of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Daughter	[ThisPerson] appeared as the daughter of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Visitor	In the< [Date:plain]> census, [ThisPerson] appeared as a visitor in the household of [person]< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Boarder	In the< [Date:plain]> census, [ThisPerson] appeared as a boarder in the household of [person]< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Step-daughter	[ThisPerson] appeared as the step-daughter of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Step-son	[ThisPerson] appeared as the step-son of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Lodger	In the< [Date:plain]> census, [ThisPerson] appeared as a lodger in the household of [person]< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Grandson	[ThisPerson] appeared as the grandson of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Granddaughter	[ThisPerson] appeared as the granddaughter of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.

[koornalla]

Hi Tom,

 

That looks to be exactly what I was looking for. I will do some testing.

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[Laura]

I'm seeing something kind of odd in my latest TMG > RM import.  I have customized witness roles for the Death tag as follows:

[R:Survivor] survived the death of his wife, [R:Deceased], <[D]>

[R:Survivor] survived the death of her husband, [R:Deceased], <[D]>

 

Let's say Harriet Smith died on 9 Oct 2014, and was survived by her husband, Harry Smith

 

On import, the resulting RM template is:  [Person] survived the death of his wife, [Deceased], <[Date]> .  The resulting sentence in the Edit Person screen and narrative reports is:

Harriet Smith survived the death of his wife, , on 9 Oct 2014 .

 

And of course, that's not what I intended.  What I want to see is "Harry Smith survived the death of his wife, Harriet Smith, on 9 Oct 2014.

 

Is something like this even possible in RM?  I set it up in TMG so that, particularly in the case of multiple marriages, I'd have a reminder in the Details window of when each marriage began and ended.  In the Timeline view in RM, the death date of a spouse is already there.  The presence of this sentence in narrative reports is somewhat less important to me, although it would be nice to have.

 

-----

 

In RM, [Person] is the Principal, the person the Death fact was added to.  The person who died. That would be the deceased person, Harriett Smith in your TMG sentence.

Survivor would be the Role for the Sharee, the person the Death fact was shared with, Harry Smith.  In the sentence for a Sharee, [ThisPerson] designates when to use the Sharee's name.

This is the way I would set it up:

Principal default fact sentence:

<?[Date][Desc][Place][PlaceDetails]|[person:first] died< [Desc]>< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>|[person:first] has died>.<?[Survivor]|  [Person:HeShe:Caps] was survived by<% his wife,  [Survivor:Given] [Person:Surname]| her husband, [Survivor]>>.

The first part is a Value switch [?] which prints one sentence if there are any entries in the Fact fields and another sentence if there is no entries in the fact fields.

For the Survivor sentence, the Value switch [?] says to print this sentence if the fact is shared with a person with the Survivor Sharee role.  The Gender switch [%] contols what is printed if the Principal is male or female.  >> at the end is needed to close both swithes in that sentence.

Sharee role, Survivor, default sentence:

[ThisPerson:HeShe:Caps] survived the death of<% his wife, [Person:Given] [ThisPerson:Surname]<, [Date]>| her husband, [Person]<, [Date]>>.

The Gender switch [%] controls what to print according to the gender of the Sharee [ThisPerson].  The date will print when the Narrative report is printed.

 

-----

 

I am not sure why my post ended up in the quote  box.

[Sherman Peabody]

 

Sharee role, Survivor, default sentence:

[ThisPerson:HeShe:Caps] survived the death of<% his wife, [Person:Given] [ThisPerson:Surname]<, [Date]>| her husband, [Person]<, [Date]>>.

The Gender switch [%] controls what to print according to the gender of the Sharee [ThisPerson].  The date will print when the Narrative report is printed.

----------------------------------------------------------

I am working on a very similar kind of role sentence except it is for a child of a deceased parent.  Here is what I have so far:

 

At the time of [ThisPerson:HisHer:Lower] <%father's|mother's|parent's> death <[Date]>, [ThisPerson] <was [ThisPerson:Age:Plain] year(s) old>.

 

When the mother is the deceased person and the child is male, I get "At the time of his father's death on 1 Feb 1901, John Doe was 2 year(s) old."

 

I say in Laura's post that the [%] switch refers to [ThisPerson] in a role sentence.  So I tried to force the issue by putting %[Person]% in the test. I.e. <%[Person]%father's|mother's|parent's>. This produces the result "At the time of his parent's death on 1 Feb 1901, John Doe was 2 year(s) old."

 

I confirmed that the mother had her gender chosen to Female so it appears RM thinks the gender of %[Person]% is unknown.

 

Is there any way to do a gender test on [Person] from a role sentence?  I guess I could define ChildofMom and ChildofDad roles but I would like to avoid that if possible.

[koornalla]

 

I have Description enabled for the Census fact. If the person I want to record is the Head of Household, I leave it blank - thus the Principal sentence says he/she appeared in the census. When shared, the role sentences refer to that person as head of household. If the person I want to record is in a household headed up by someone I wish not to record as a person, I enter the Head's name in the Description field and the sentence switches to say my person appeared .. in the household of [Desc]. 

 

My current roles and sentences:

Role	Sentence
Principal	[person:first]<?[Desc]| is listed in the household of [desc]| is listed [PlaceDetails] [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>.
Witness	[ThisPerson] appeared in the household of [person] in the census< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Spouse	[ThisPerson] appeared as the spouse of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Son	[ThisPerson] appeared as the son of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Daughter	[ThisPerson] appeared as the daughter of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Visitor	In the< [Date:plain]> census, [ThisPerson] appeared as a visitor in the household of [person]< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Boarder	In the< [Date:plain]> census, [ThisPerson] appeared as a boarder in the household of [person]< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Step-daughter	[ThisPerson] appeared as the step-daughter of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Step-son	[ThisPerson] appeared as the step-son of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Lodger	In the< [Date:plain]> census, [ThisPerson] appeared as a lodger in the household of [person]< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Grandson	[ThisPerson] appeared as the grandson of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.
Granddaughter	[ThisPerson] appeared as the granddaughter of [person] in the< [Date:plain]> census< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.

Hi Tom (and others),

 

Before I proceed along Tom's Census path I need to look at Census data within RM, preferably on a household  basis. If there any way that RM or SQLite can produce a Census citation report with all individuals and roles?

 

One of my objectives in doing this would be that I need to double check that all my Census Principles should be made Head of Household in the way that Tom suggests.

 

In a lot of my work thus far I have been using TMG reports to move forward with my migration. I do not apear to be able to produce a Census report within TMG this time.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[TomH]

Wayne, have a look at the pages titled "People who share a fact..." at http://sqlitetoolsfo...ag=shared event for a possible external answer to your need.

[koornalla]

Wayne, have a look at the pages titled "People who share a fact..." at http://sqlitetoolsfo...ag=shared event for a possible external answer to your need.

 

Thanks Tom. That's exactly what I want. I can get households by importing SQLite results into a spreadsheet and filtering the results.

 

In looking at your data and what I get out of TMG I have found that the vast majority of people who are listed as Principle in a RM census event  should be Head of Household. I can find out from TMG which persons should be someone else. So is there a way to bulk add "Head of Household" to all the description field of principles in all RM Census events? I would then manually change a relatively small number that were not HOH back to something else.

 

Also, in TMG, I had a Census fact for each Census (and this migrated to RM) but now feel that only having one Census event (the native RM one) would be better. So is there a way to bulk change events from one event type to another? I would do this before the bulk copy of HOH.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Wayne Thurley

[TomH]

For your question about converting all Year-Census facts to the RM standard Census fact, have a look at http://sqlitetoolsfo...hange Fact Type . With some customization, that script could do them all in one swell foop.

On the question of adding "Head of Household" to all Principal sentences, just edit the sentence for that role. For exceptions, edit the local sentence.

Hope that's what you are looking for.

[koornalla]

Hi Tom,

 

I used the script and It works well. Took me less than 5 minutes.

 

I will follow your advice on the sentence and the followup cleaning up.

 

Thanks again.

 

Wayne Thurley

[Jerry Bryan]

Tom, this discussion might better go on your SQLite wiki, but I'm thinking of going the other direction. Which is to say, for U.S. censuses I'm thinking of creating user defined fact types called census1790, census1800, census1810, etc. through census1940. These user defined fact types would be exact clones of the built-in census fact type. For example, there is nothing that would tie the census1790 fact type to the year 1790 except for the name of the fact type. Then I would have a script that changes all census events for the year 1790 to census1790 events for the year 1790 and so forth for each U.S. census year. Nothing would change in any report that would come out of RM.

 

Why would I do such a strange thing? Because then I could profitably put census events into People View. At the present time, it's a big waste of time to try to put census events into People View because census events are effectively duplicate events and only one such duplicate can be displayed in People View. With the new scheme, I could put any particular U.S. census year into People View.

 

And of course, on the back end, I would want to restore each of the census1790, census1800, etc. events back to standard census events. It's probably going to be a few weeks until I have time to put the script together (even though it's a pretty simple script). So maybe with a little luck (and if this idea tickles your fancy), you might have this code done within the next five or ten minutes. You are way faster with SQLite than I am. This idea is even a good candidate for RMTrix. And if it doesn't tickle your fancy or if you don't have time, I'll do it myself in a few weeks.

 

Jerry

[TomH]

Jerry, I forked your idea to a new topic at http://forums.rootsm...ensus-and-back/

[Jerry Bryan]

 

Also, in TMG, I had a Census fact for each Census (and this migrated to RM) but now feel that only having one Census event (the native RM one) would be better. So is there a way to bulk change events from one event type to another? I would do this before the bulk copy of HOH.

 

Ironically, I'm presently wanting to do the exact opposite. If I already had a separate census fact type for each census year, I would just leave them that way.

 

Jerry

[koornalla]

 

Ironically, I'm presently wanting to do the exact opposite. If I already had a separate census fact type for each census year, I would just leave them that way.

 

Jerry

 

Hi Tom, (Jerry and others),

 

I am having problems with the "Shared - Census" fact generating sentences after using your script to compress all my Census facts into one. I do not have the same problem using my backup RM data file where I have a separate census fact for each census.

 

The background is:

 

When I migrated from TMG to RM the census facts related to the Principle came across to RM as non shared (e.g. 1891 Census"). The facts related to the associated witnesses (with all roles intact) came across to RM as shared facts  (e.g. Shared - 1891 Census (Principle's name)". Prior to using Tom's script, if I create a sentences for a particular role within a particular sentence within the "Census" fact it would work as you expect to work.

 

When I used Tom's script to compress all Census facts into one Census fact a similar thing happened with the single "Census"  (i.e. only displaying as Shared if the fact related to a witness to that fact).

 

Even though my "Census" fact has all roles and sentences added (and they work beautifully for the Principle) there is not sentence produced when I display a shared Census fact.

 

Do I need to go back to the backup and start again and not use your script this time or is there a workaround or have I overlooked something?

 

 

Wayne Thurley