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Confused on Entering Marriage Info


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#1 kaycyn

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

I am a brand new used to this program. When I enter an individual - say John Doe - and then add fact "Marriage" and type in the spouse's name - say Mary Smith - Mary's name does not show up in the index but yet - when I print out an "Individuals" list, she is on it! I don't understand. Example: I John Doe dies and Mary Smith Doe remarries Bill Jones since I don't find her on the index I might enter her again. I don't want to duplicate enteries. Is it better to enter Mary's name in the "add spouse" screen? In my old program if you entered Mary's name in the record for John Doe it would automatically be added to the index. Please advise! Thanks - Cindy

#2 Alfred

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:26 AM

This is a new one for me.
I always added a spouse before adding the marriage fact.
This is a new feature to me. I didn't know you could choose to add a marriage fact to a single person and add a new spouse from there.
The new feature does not seem to put the new person in the index but the "Add Spouse" first does.
You can close an re-open the database to get the name to appear in the index.
Alfred

#3 fredandrana

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

I actually tried this to see what happens. When you add the spouse, it does not show in the index. But, if you click on another person, and then click on the spouse again, it shows up.

When you go to add a marriage event, you will get a popup window that asks which spouse you would like to add the event to, and it will show you any other spouses you have already added. And if the name is the same, you will get a popup asking if the person is one you have previously entered.

Should you get duplicates, they can be manually merged very easily. :D

#4 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:03 AM

This is a new feature to me. I didn't know you could choose to add a marriage fact to a single person and add a new spouse from there.


This feature has actually been there rather a long time. I don't remember if it was there in Family Origins, nor if it was there in RM1, RM2, or RM3. But it's been there a long time.

This feature is one of the many causes of the excessive clickiness in RM. For example, suppose you have a couple with just each other as spouses and suppose you have no marriage fact for the couple. If you go into add the marriage fact, it will first ask you if you wish to add a new spouse, even though it's probably 99 times out of 100 that you don't wish to do so (or even maybe 999 times out of 1000 that you don't wish to do so).

On the other hand, suppose you add a marriage fact to a person with no spouse. Again you will get the excessive clickiness because it first asks you if wish to select a spouse to add this fact to (the only possible answer is really yes), and only then will it ask you if you wish to add a new person to the database or select an existing person. Well, in all truth another answer to the first question is cancel, but cancel is also available as an answer to the second question so the first question is totally useless.

Jerry

#5 Renee Zamora

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

I think it a great short-cut to work in the Descendant list and add spouses by adding a marriage fact to a person. You can work really fast that way using short-cut keys and hardly ever touching the mouse.

I just never noticed that the spouse was not appearing in the Sidebar list. That is because my database is large enough that the spouse's name typically isn't in the same side bar index location to notice if it's there or not. So, I created a new blank database and sure enough the spouse's name is not there right away. It does show in the People View index and the RM Explorer right away.

I had to open the spouse's Edit Person screen to get their name to appear on the side bar index. So we have a refresh issue going on. I will add this to our tracking system for resolution.

FYI, you can also use File>Database Tools>Rebuild Indexes and this will resolve it too.
Renee
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#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:54 PM

I think it a great short-cut to work in the Descendant list and add spouses by adding a marriage fact to a person. You can work really fast that way using short-cut keys and hardly ever touching the mouse.


Agreed. Adding a marriage fact for a not-yet-existing spouse can be a really handy way to add the spouse as well as the marriage fact, and Descendant View is a great way to work in this regard. I just wish adding a spouse in this manner were slightly less clicky. :)

Jerry

#7 Nettie

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:10 AM

I have noticed that the side bar has not been updating in the last few revisions. Glad it is being acknowledged...

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
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from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#8 BobBatty

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:21 PM

I have never had this problem. I installed RM as it installs and use it same, I don't change anything. It doesn't matter when you add a spouse to a individual. You enter the male as his birth name. You enter the wife as her birth name. The male will be in the sidebar as his birth name. His wife will be in the sidebar under her birth name. She will NOT appear in the sidebar with his surname. Go back and click on the marriage and share it with those two names. You should enter a date. If the male/female marries the second time open his/her edit page and on the top right corner is a box that might say 1, click on that box and click add new spouse. Do as above entering the spouse (Male or Female) enter a date, share the marriage fact with the new spouse. I just clicked on one of mine that married 5 times. You need to put a date so RM knows what order to put them in reports. Please don't rewrite the best genealogy program there is. Bob

#9 Renee Zamora

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:01 PM

Bob, the reason you are not seeing the problem in the sidebar index is due to the your method of inputting the new spouse. When you use Add>Spouse they will appear in the index. When you add a marriage fact which then adds the new spouse it will not. That is the only part that needs to be fixed.
Renee
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#10 Phil Irons

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:24 PM

I, too am a new user to RM, but used PAF, in various versions for many years. I have found, by experimentation, that when I want to enter the parents for a particular person, I need to add the Father first, then the mother. If, while adding the father, I add a Marriage Event, the program will ask me to add either a new or existing spouse. Obviously, as I haven't added the spouse at this point, I want to add a new person. When I do so, and return to the main page, I see that the Father has TWO spouses, one that I just entered, and UNKNOWN, and there is nothing in the slot for the subject person's Mother. If I now try to add the mother as an existing person, a search doesn't find her. If I add her as a NEW person, then the subject person now has two Fathers and two Mothers. Both Fathers have the same name, and the two Mothers each have the same name. Trying to delete one of the duplicates deletes both of them.

I have taken the approach to enter the Father first, then the Mother as a new person, and then going back to the Father's Personal page and adding the Marriage Event. In this instance, the Mother as entered above is offered as the appropriate person to be attached as the first (and, presumably only) spouse.

To me, this procedure is inefficient. It should not be necessary to flit back and forth between parents' personal pages to enter data that could be automatically inserted into the database. My copy of "Getting the Most out of RootsMagic 6" arrived in the mail today. Perhaps I'll find a solution to this 'feature' in its pages.

Regards

Phil Irons,
Sydney, NS

Grey hair is a crown of Glory; it is attained by a righteous life

Proverbs 16:31


#11 zhangrau

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:43 PM

As a long-time RM user, I don't see the problem as innate to RM, but rather an inappropriate way to enter the spouses. How does it make sense to add a marriage fact until BOTH people exist in the database?

If we are starting with an individual, not currently linked to anyone else, who needs parents added, then the Family View will show "+ Click to add father/mother" Rather than clicking on EITHER father or mother, I always Right-Click on the Individual and select Add > Parents. Following the dialog boxes, you'll be prompted first to add the father, then to add the mother, and finally to add the marriage. This will completely avoid the problems described above.

#12 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

I have taken the approach to enter the Father first, then the Mother as a new person, and then going back to the Father's Personal page and adding the Marriage Event. In this instance, the Mother as entered above is offered as the appropriate person to be attached as the first (and, presumably only) spouse.


Through the years of using FO and RM, I have settted on the procedure of almost never adding any data of any sort for any person at the time I'm adding the person. Instead, I add the person and then go back and edit the person to add the data. This includes the situation when I'm adding a couple.

I realize that my procedure sounds horribly ineffecient in some ways and that it flies in the face of a lot of conventional wisdom. And I certainly don't suggest that everybody else should follow my model. It's just that there are lots of little gotchas in the user interface that only happen when adding a person and their data at the same time. The gotchas can be as significant as the duplicate spouses being described in this thread to as trivial as the fact that hotkeys work radically differently in the Add Person dialog than they do in the Edit Person dialog. For another example, try to use Gazetteer from within the Add Person dialog (you can't) but Gazetteer works fine from within the edit fact window of the Edit Person dialog. For yet another example, you can't add any sources or media from the Add Person dialog.

Among other things, my horribly ineffecient procedure means that I don't worry about customizing the facts that can be added from the Add Person dialog because I don't need to. All facts are equally available to the Edit Person dialog.

None of this is to say that I'm delighted with the Edit Person dialog, because I'm not. When you open the Edit Person dialog, your screen basically contains two panes, left and right. The left pane contains the names of the person and their parents plus all the facts for the person, and the right pane contains editable details of whatever is highlighted in the left pane. But the left pane itself is not editable. I really wish you could edit directly in the left hand pane. If this were done in a sufficiently robust way, the right pane wouldn't be necessary at all and the clickiness of the program could potentially be much reduced.

Jerry