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#1 Bocito

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

I consider RM a genealogical program that records in chronological order events as they happen and that includes adoptions. Let us try this scenario. John Able and Mary Baker get married and have two children. Able Able and Baker Able. After the birth of Baker Able the father John Able dies and Mary Baker marries John Williams. John Williams adopts the two sons and changes their surname to Williams. How do you record these events? I would add the two Able boys to the Williams side without changing the surnames. I would add the alternate names fact for both boys using the date of adoption. I would also add the adoption fact on the Williams side. I have had people say that they changed the birth surname to agree with the adoption facts. I consider this wrong. We are dealing with events not what the legal system has developed.
Should we have an adoption for alternate names?
Any suggestions?

#2 Laura

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:00 PM

I don't understand what you mean by "an adoption for alternate names". Why is the present altternate name fact not sufficient?

Adoption is one of the choices in the dropdown menu for the Alternate name fact.

Choose Birth if the Alternate name is the birth name.
Laura

The following was overheard at a recent high society party...
"My ancestry goes all the way back to Alexander the Great," said one lady. She then turned to a second woman and asked, "How far does your family go back?"
"I don't know," was the reply. "All of our records were lost in the flood."
-on various web sites-

#3 Alfred

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:04 AM

I feel that the name they grew up with and use as an adult should be the primary name.

Then the birth name could be used as an alternate name.

They should probably be linked to both sets of parents, which may cause a bit of confusion at times, but there are notes for explaining away the confusion.
Alfred

#4 slimjim

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 02:54 AM

I think the problem that will arise here is that, as far as I know, although you can change the parents/family when reporting you cannot change the name used within that family. For example my wife was adopted shortly after birth. I have traced her birth family and her adopted family and I used her birth name. This looked wrong when reporting on the adopted family. In the end, and I know there will be many protests, I treated her as two people one in her birth family and the other in her adopted family. One property that I have used with alternate names is to make use of the date/'date sort' field so that the change of name fits into timelines. In the individual report summaries they then get added into the event list at the date that they happened.

#5 Laura

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:00 AM

We could enter either the birth surname or adopted surname and then use the Suffix field and enter [birth surname - Doe] or [adopted surname - Smith].
Laura

The following was overheard at a recent high society party...
"My ancestry goes all the way back to Alexander the Great," said one lady. She then turned to a second woman and asked, "How far does your family go back?"
"I don't know," was the reply. "All of our records were lost in the flood."
-on various web sites-

#6 Bocito

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:29 PM

There is no adopted name in the alternate name. Changing the surname to the one they use is wrong. You would need to use alternate name fact. Your dealing with biological facts not what the state decided.
Sorry Alfred but your way is confusing. You could not sort correctly using your method. Birth name used at time of birth. All other names come thereafter not at time of birth. Each name change event will have their own date.

#7 Alfred

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

I think that it will be a bit confusing in the next generations if the his children are Smiths and he is listed as Jones when everyone knows him as Smith.

Are you going to name all of his descendants by his birth name?
Alfred

#8 Don Newcomb

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:36 PM

IMHO, you can do it however you want to do it. The only question is, "Does RM6 support you in doing it?" AFAIK, RM6 never changes anyone's name. So if the main listing is "Mary Jones" and she later marries or is adopted or changes her name, that's just a fact but the next fact comes along and she's still "Mary Jones". You can make the main name what someone died with or what someone was born with. One problem I see is that there isn't a way to document that the main name is anything other than the "birth" name like you can with alternate names.

I personally always leave people by their "birth" names and add later names as facts. So, while my grandfather was was known for his entire adult life as "George Roman", he's in my database as "Johann Georg Romann", which is what he was baptized.

#9 Bocito

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:33 PM

RM6 doesn't make the decision as to name usage it only records events as they happen. If you change the birth name because that person started using a different and then you have changed his birth name. What the name is in the birth certificate is what you go by. You can use an alternate name to show a new name. You don't change the birth name. .

#10 Laura

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:03 PM

On more modern birth certificates at least, the birth cerificate name and parents are changed to the adopted name and new parents at the recording gorvernment office in the United States even if that child was adopted as an adult. So the name on a birth certificate may or may not be the name a child was born with.

I don't have a hard and fast rule about which name to use. I decide according to the circumstances for each adopted person. Then I put the other name as the alternate name in the alternate name fact and choose Birth or Adopted from the drop down menu.


Another choice could be to put the other name in the name suffix, i.e. [b. Nancy Jane Smith].
Laura

The following was overheard at a recent high society party...
"My ancestry goes all the way back to Alexander the Great," said one lady. She then turned to a second woman and asked, "How far does your family go back?"
"I don't know," was the reply. "All of our records were lost in the flood."
-on various web sites-

#11 zhangrau

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:04 PM

One continuing problem with the Alternate Name fact is that there are SEVEN choices in the pulldown menu, but NONE of them are actually used in Narrative Reports. That is, you can select any one of the SEVEN choices, but the report will ALWAYS read "was also known as." THat makes it pretty pointless to spend time properly tagging each alternate name occurance with the most appropriate reason in the pulldown menu. I hope that gets fixed, someday....

#12 Laura

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:21 PM

I prefer to retain control of the sentence RM prints in the Narrative report by customizing the sentence on the Edit person screen when I want it to read differently than the fact default sentence.
Laura

The following was overheard at a recent high society party...
"My ancestry goes all the way back to Alexander the Great," said one lady. She then turned to a second woman and asked, "How far does your family go back?"
"I don't know," was the reply. "All of our records were lost in the flood."
-on various web sites-

#13 zhangrau

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:58 PM

But isn't that exactly what the pulldown selections for the Alternate Name should do? If I have to learn to customize fact sentences, then why does the pulldown menu exist?

#14 Bocito

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

Sorry but I show all alternate name facts in my reports. I use the NEHGS, register format. I would like to see an "Adopted name" added to the alternate name options.

#15 Renee Zamora

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:48 PM

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#16 mom2twinzz

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:11 PM

As an adopted child with connections to my birth family, I have chosen to use my adoptive name as the primary name. It is the legal name on my birth certificate. I do know what my birth name was so I use the alternate name with the birth type to list my birth name. When sharing the information to the birth family relatives, I use that name as the primary name and leave off my adoptive name.

For most adoptees in my file, I have both names listed if they are known and use the adoptive name as the primary and the birth name, if different, as an alternate name. I then add a note to the alternate name fact to notate what the information I have and how these names are used.

#17 TomH

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 06:29 AM

How can you suppress from RM reports the name you enter when you create the person's record in favour of an Alternate Name fact?

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#18 jmarsmith

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 06:29 PM

I was adopted by my mother's husband and my surname was changed when I was 11. I struggled with how to record myself for a long time and finally decided on the following:
  • Record with my post-adoption surname. Because my surname was legally changed and a new birth certificate was issued, anyone looking for a birth certificate under my original birth surname will not find it because that record no longer legally exists
  • Create a Birth Name fact and record my original surname given at birth. This fact comes right after my Birth fact on the family group sheet and other reports.
  • Record an Adoption fact with my adoptive father's name and adoption date.
  • Record two sets of parents (birth father and birth mother, adoptive father and birth mother).
After doing this, my narrative reads: "[Person] was born on [Date] in [Place]. Her birth name was [Name]. She was adopted by [Person] on [Date] in [Place]."

I don't think there is a right or wrong way of recording a person who was adopted. It really all comes down to personal preference and what make sense to you.

#19 mom2twinzz

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 10:18 PM

How can you suppress from RM reports the name you enter when you create the person's record in favour of an Alternate Name fact?


When I export to a file to share, I temporarily disconnect myself from my adopted family or vice versa and switch my primary and alternate names to match the tree I am sending out and only share the side that they are asking about. Since everything else is privatized for the living, this prevents the issue from showing up on reports that I send out. At least until I can figure out the answer to the other question I have which is privatizing a line completely.

#20 MikeZ

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:03 PM

I have a known adoption in my DB which aligns with Bocito's September 19th example (except the 1st husband was divorced vs. died). I kept the blood-line surname for the children while noting the adoption information.

I guess I'm a traditionalist because I believe that a genealogical record (family tree) should fundamentally reflect the genetic history of a family. This becomes very important for those who seek to use DNA testing and autosomal comparison techniques to help identify ancestors, cousins, etc. because adoption does not transfer genetic markers nor health related genetic traits, which is important information to some people.
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