21 replies to this topic

[Old Bob]

In RM6 how do you edit the prefix in a fact typ..like retirement..In the narrative report is say "in" but if I look at the fact for the person the sentence says it will read correctly as Jane Doe retired in 2008 from ABC company but in the narrative report the sentence reads Jane Doe retired in 2008 in ABC company. In RM3 there was a field where you could pick the prefix but I cannot find one here. If it helps, this data was imported from RM3

[Laura]

< from [place:plain]> will do it. Replace place with the field name.

Put what you want to print with the field, if that field is used, between <>.

[Old Bob]

thanks Laura..this was quite the challenge...your suggestion worked but if I put something in the details it did not print so after many tries as something I know little about I ended up with the coding to read :

[person] retired< [Date]> < [PlaceDetails]> <in [Place:Plain]>.


I hope this does not mess up anything else.

[Laura]

That looks good to me except you need to have a space before the in.

Since you didn't tell us you were using Place details, I used place as an example. You could also have < from [Placedetails:plain]> to get the sentence you posted in your first post if ABC Company is in the Place details.

John Doe retired< [Date]>< from [Placedetails:plain]>.

You could have a sentence, for example, like:

John Doe retired< [Date]>< from [Placedetails:plain]> whose head office was < at [Place:plain]>.

John Doe retired in 2008 from ABC Company whose head office was at Dallas, Dallas County, Texas.

This would be a sentence as you might customize it on the Edit person screen.

The sentence must always have any field you want to print in the sentence.

If you have a description field you want to print, you would add [desc] to the sentence.

In some ways you are learning a completely new program with some familiar elements as RM 4 was a complete rewrite of RootsMagic.

[Old Bob]

Thank you for your very helpful details on how to edit this/other fact sentences. I am going to keep your suggestions so I can edit an individual one if needed. It seems simple until I try it..but I will get it. I thought as long as the program offers the split place and details I would try to use both and clean up all the old places to just actual places with descriptions so things going forward are more accurate to the program. Again, thank you for your patience and help.

[Laura]

Before you decide to use Place details, you need to think about whether you will ever be sharing with someone else who uses another program by gedcom.

Place details are specific to RootsMagic. The chance that another program will import them is very slim and that data will be lost for the person you gave the gedcom to. Even importing a RM 6 gedcom into RM 3 will lose the Place details.

If you do make a gedcom for use in RM 4 + versions, remember to check the RM specific box on the export gedcom screen.

Sharing facts is another thing to think about if you are going to be sharing with gedcom with some one else. The fact is only tied to the Principal and not the Sharee when importing a gedcom into another program.

[Old Bob]

OMG Laura..what a loss that would be..I will have to think about putting all the details back to be part of places and forego the detail field. I wish I knew that before ..maybe there should be a field warning when you try to enter RM specific fields that states this field is RM specific. Does this hold true to any fact that has detail like the retirement one I worked so hard on?

Is there any custom report you can help me create to tell me of anyone who has a RM specific field or detail field filled in so I can see them all to correct back?

[TomH]

Find or Mark criterion:
Any fact > Place details > "is not blank" will find Persons having an event with a Place Detail.

Persons having Family facts such as Marriage, Census (family), Residence (family) can be found with:
Census (family) > exists > "is True"
or by using the Fact List report.

Persons sharing a fact/event are not readily found in RM. Consequently, some outboard tools have been developed:
People Who Share a Fact with a Principal List - Query produces a list
People Who Share A Fact with a Principal, But Who Are Not in a Tree in The File List - Query produces a list
Facts - Split Shared to Individual converts shared facts to individual facts for compatibility with 3rd party software
These are also included in the RMtrix utility, making them pretty easy to use.

[Old Bob]

I am so concerned that I could potentially loose information so I did go thru the place list and see which ones had detail and changed the place back to a place that included this detail...then deleted the detail from the database (note:there was no warning here if the place detail was in use like there is if you try to delete a place that is use--could be a good suggestion). That would take care of any place detail I entered. Hopefully RM is a pioneer in these new fields and others will some day use them too..RM had made it easy to separate them if I desire to in the future. Can you tell me what other fields are RM specific that I need to be warry of?

[Dale DePriest]

Often a program that does not understand information from importing a file will simply place the information in a note for that fact, so it really does not get "lost", just misplaced.

[Old Bob]

Before you decide to use Place details, you need to think about whether you will ever be sharing with someone else who uses another program by gedcom.

Place details are specific to RootsMagic. The chance that another program will import them is very slim and that data will be lost for the person
If you do make a gedcom for use in RM 4 + versions, remember to check the RM specific box on the export gedcom screen.

.

Laura, on the RM6 export of a gedcom I do not see a box labeled RM specific fields..is it perhaps labeled something else?

[Alfred]

[ ] Extra details (RM Specific)
The very last one in the left hand column.

[Old Bob]

Thank you Alfred..I am indeed blind. it is right there..and checked. Hopefully, as I have said before, other programs (or all my friends will have to come on over to RM, will recognize these great fields. I am indeed getting there and really appreciate all the help this forum has given me..

[Old Bob]

What a can of worms I have now discovered that I have opened . Not wanting to use the Place detail field for fear of loosing data, my new coding for retirement of [person] retired< [Date]> <from [Place:Plain]>.is working well but I now see the default prefix for the place field appears to be IN no matter what fact is used...so many many of my common facts read with an improper prefix because I am not using the place detail field. I guess I now how to go thru all the facts and see which ones uses the detail field and change the coding to the place:plain coding I used in the retirement one and pick a prefix that fits the fact (marriage, occupation, graduated etc.etc ) . This seems like a lot..but the IN prefix reads odd currently. For example..now it says Joe graduated in 2002 in UCONN in Storrs, CT. It would read better to say AT UCONN or even from UCONN . If I learn how to create a custom fact instead of changing the default, would that fact be exported in a gedcom or imported into other programs or would they too be possibly eliminated as the RM specific field of Place Details might?. I am trying to take a step back and decide the best way to proceed so my narratives read correctly, my data is safe..and fact imput is easier and not have to always figure out how to customize each entry and I would appreciate any advice.

[TomH]

Bob, you should probably test how well your data travels via GEDCOM to the other software. You might be pleasantly surprised to find that the Place Detail value is not lost. It is exported by RM to standard GEDCOM. For example, here is an exported burial event for a person:

1 BURI
2 _PRIM Y
2 DATE 1 JAN 1951
2 PLAC Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
2 ADDR Craigton Cemetery & Crematorium, Cardonald
3 MAP
4 LATI N55.8468694
4 LONG W4.3337611

The Place value is with the PLAC tag; the Place Detail value is attached to the ADDR tag. The Place Detail geocoordinates are also included under the MAP tag, which is subsidiary to ADDR. The only non-standard GEDCOM tag is _PRIM.

The question is, what does the destination software do with the data exported by RootsMagic to standard GEDCOM tags?

[Laura]

Fact sentences are not exported in a gedcom for use in other programs. It is a RM specific feature only for use in RM for printing Narrative reports.

Every fact has it's own default sentence. Changing the way one fact's sentence reads does not gobally change the other facts. You have to change each fact separately.

If you have place details entered on the Edit person screen and no [Placedetails] field in the sentence, then place details are not going to print in the Narritive report. I have one fact that is marked to enable the desciption field, and I enter data into the desciption field for the fact. But, I don't want that data printed in a Narrative report so I don't have [Desc] in the fact sentence.

[Old Bob]

Thom,and Laura thank you for your input. Laura, you had warned me earlier in this topic that the place detail field was a RM specific field and may not IMPORT in other programs from a gedcom or even import into RM3 and that data would be lost. Fearing that possible loss is why I decided not to use it . TomH, I see how data exports (not sentences) and RM specific fields do export from your example (though I do not know what the _Prim Y is). I am really the only person keeping my family history now but I was trying to think of those that will do this at a later time and protect my data just in case they use another program available at the time. It would be nice to use the new place detail field, as sentences read correctly with no altering and the mapping works with just towns, states in the place field. RM makes it easy to split the place too. I am just very torn as I have always used RM but have on occasion, sent a gedcom to distant relatives and have no idea what programs they use. I do understand now if I change one fact coding, it does not effect others and if I omit the place detail field in the fact coding any information entered there will not print on narratives. In the coding of a fact, is there a way I can just change the default word IN with another? If I change the coding of a fact, if there is an update to RM6 will these changes be lost?

[Renee Zamora]

What a can of worms I have now discovered that I have opened . Not wanting to use the Place detail field for fear of loosing data, my new coding for retirement of [person] retired< [Date]> <from [Place:Plain]>.is working well but I now see the default prefix for the place field appears to be IN no matter what fact is used...so many many of my common facts read with an improper prefix because I am not using the place detail field. I guess I now how to go thru all the facts and see which ones uses the detail field and change the coding to the place:plain coding I used in the retirement one and pick a prefix that fits the fact (marriage, occupation, graduated etc.etc ) . This seems like a lot..but the IN prefix reads odd currently. For example..now it says Joe graduated in 2002 in UCONN in Storrs, CT. It would read better to say AT UCONN or even from UCONN . If I learn how to create a custom fact instead of changing the default, would that fact be exported in a gedcom or imported into other programs or would they too be possibly eliminated as the RM specific field of Place Details might?. I am trying to take a step back and decide the best way to proceed so my narratives read correctly, my data is safe..and fact imput is easier and not have to always figure out how to customize each entry and I would appreciate any advice.

This sentence template uses AT
[person] graduated< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>.

This sentence template uses FROM
[person] graduated< [Date]>< from [PlaceDetails:Plain]>< [Place]>.

You can select to edit the List>Fact Type sentence template so it effects everyone. Or, customize the fact sentence for the one event on their Edit Person screen. On the right on the very bottom under Sentence click on "Customize Sentence" and edit it there.

[Laura]

To show how you can use < [Place:plain], this could be a customized sentence on the Edit person screen. Of course you wouldn't want this sentence to be the fact default sentence.

[person] was born< [Date]>< [PlaceDetails]>< on his father's farm about 3 miles East of [Place:plain]>


I suggest you create a new database and drag and drop a family into it to experiment with sentence templates before making any more changes in your database. When you know what changes you want to make, you can then make them in the main database.

I find it helpful to open a person's Edit person screen in the Play database and customize the sentence for a fact with all the fields entered until I have the sentence as I want it for the fact default sentence. I can see the results of the change right away without going back and forth to the Fact type list. When I get it as I want it, I copy and paste the default sentence for that fact into my main database.

Help, Index, search for template, template languages , click Display button, Sentence Template language.

[Old Bob]

Thank you all for your suggestions so I guess I just have to spend some time trying each format and see what works best for me. You have all given me some great suggestions. There are good/bad for each way to approach this wether to edit the main fact type or the sentence on the person or do some of both..I also could just maybe reword the PLACE filed data I enter so it starts with a true PLACE followed by the detail in the same line (not using the place detail field) so the prefix IN reads nicely in the narrative. Thank you all again. I may be Old but still learning!