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#1 trainersbuk

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:25 AM

Extract from Email I have sent to product support in US:

I have just upgraded to the latest version of rootsmagic version 6.3.0.0 and immediately discovered a fault with the new problem report feature. I have sent this fault directly to the US Rootsmagic support team:

Firstly, the problem options in the Tools -> File Options, Problem options dialog does not match the settings in the Tools or in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog.

Secondly, changing the settings in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog causes an immediate search for problems, however, the changes made are not reflected in the problem list. To make changes I had to:

Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List
make the change in the dialog & click OK (search automatically performed)
Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List
click OK (search automatically performed again)


Only the second search reflected the problem list in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog.

There does seem to be a lot of minor releases just lately, many with fixes to problems. As an IT professional I know all about software testing, and for me to find such a major error so quickly is evidence of poor testing!!!

I suspect the reply I will receive to the first issue is that the Tools -> File Options dialog is for background searches whilst the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem list dialog is for immediate searches, however, I still believe that they should be the same.

Please note the workaround for the second problem hilighted in blue above!

#2 RootsMagician

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:14 AM

Actually, the reply you were expecting is the one you will get.

The problem report and the problem alerts *do* use separate settings, as there may be options a user wants to turn off from doing in the background, while leaving those on for the report.
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#3 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:45 PM

The problem report and the problem alerts *do* use separate settings, as there may be options a user wants to turn off from doing in the background, while leaving those on for the report.


I very much agree with this approach, and I commend the RootsMagician. One option shouldn't be used for two different purposes.

Jerry

#4 Laura

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

I also like the different options and want it to remain that way.

However, Tools, Problem search, Problem list is broken as trainersbuk explains in the second point.

When you make a change in selection and click OK, the Problem list does not change to reflect the new selections. You must open the Problem list and click OK again before you get the new list.

I haven't worked with the Problem list in quite awhile so can't guess when it got broken.

#5 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:41 PM

Despite the bug in the initial release (which is likely to be quickly fixed), I think the Problem Alert feature is a wonderful new feature that will be of tremendous value to me almost every day.

In his promotional announcement, Bruce says that he works with many users who don't know that the old, manual Problem List feature even exists. Well, I know it exists and I seldom ever use it. It's not that it doesn't work (it does), and it's not that I don't really need to check for problems (I do). And it's not that the feature is manual (it should be). Rather, it's that the feature is absolutely overwhelming when run against my entire database, which is the only way that it can be run. It's so overwhelming that I find it almost worthless most of the time.

It would be truly useful if I could run it against "all the descendants of John Doe" or against "all the ancestors of John Doe" or against "everybody in my database color coded green" or "everybody in my database in group Xxxxxx" or something like that. As it is, the only way I can stand to run it at all is to run it one checkmark at a time.

The Problem Alert feature by contrast only operates on one person at a time, and it works in sort of a "just in time" basis - only when it needs to run. It's great.

There have been a couple of other new features that have come out recently that have not had much discussion but which nevertheless are super new features. One of them is to be able to color code a Named Group. It's not quite the same as a Dynamic Group, but it's nevertheless a great new feature with lots of useful applications. Another new feature that's great (not quite so recent) is to be able to search based on the number of spouses or on the number of sets of parents. Again, this is extremely useful and much appreciated.

Jerry

#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

Rather, it's that the feature is absolutely overwhelming when run against my entire database, ......


The DataClean beta suffers from the exact same problem. The feature is absolutely wonderful on a small scale, but on a large scale it's so overwhelming that it's virtually useless.

Jerry

#7 Laura

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:50 PM

One of the reasons, I started using my user defined facts when working with the Problem lists was to clear it to where only new probems were found. Oiginally, I ran the list and fixed what I could from the list. I then ran the list again and linked the Unresolved problem fact to a person from Edit person within the list. After linking the fact, I sent the person to the Not a problem list and worked from the fact to resolve the problems I could resolve. After that any problem found was a new problem.

With the new Problem icon, I will rethink marking unresolved problems as Not a problem but will continue using my user defined facts.

#8 trainersbuk

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:36 AM

Despite the bug in the initial release (which is likely to be quickly fixed), I think the Problem Alert feature is a wonderful new feature that will be of tremendous value to me almost every day....



I couldn't agree more with you. This feature is great & has already enabled me to identify & fix loads of problems. However, RM have just released 6.3.0.1 & no fix yet!

I also like the different options and want it to remain that way.

However, Tools, Problem search, Problem list is broken as trainersbuk explains in the second point.


The Tools -> problem list is different from the file options I agree. As such it should be named something different and / or placed under the reports menu where it belongs.

#9 Jonathan589

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

I'll add my featherweight agreement to those of the heavyweights above. The Problem Alert feature is peachy and I will use it often, and agree that the Problem List feature is different and should stay that way. Now and then in an idle moment I'd run the problem list and fix or not-a-problem some items, but there are always too many to hit in an organised way. I liked the new tool with its little warning signs everywhere and used it immediately (until The Issue arose of course).

I found that I usually needed to look at the whole family, not just the individual or couple, so it was frustrating to click the proffered link, see the problem identified, but need to come out of it (memorising IsabellaMackenzie20376IsabellaMackenzie20376IsabellaMackenzie20376) to look at the family, perhaps to discover I'd entered a child's birth incorrectly which pranged other real or estimated data.

As you develop this tool, perhaps you could make it possible to go to the persons pointed at and have the freedom to see more family around them, but either way I am certainly looking forward to the fix to get back into using it.

#10 JohnG

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:40 AM

I have encountered "Fuzzy" math associated with the problem list.

Father & Mother were both born in 1907, Daughter was born in 1926. The problem list says that the father was 9 and the mother was 13 when the daughter was born. Is there a problem or have I missed something?

Thanks


----------------------

I'm running Version 6.3.0.1
JohnG

#11 Dale DePriest

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:33 AM

I have instances where a child is listed to the birth mother and birth father but also, due to the mothers death, listed as a step child for a second mother who actually raised the child. This results in an error that the child was born before the parents were married.

#12 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:46 AM

I have instances where a child is listed to the birth mother and birth father but also, due to the mothers death, listed as a step child for a second mother who actually raised the child. This results in an error that the child was born before the parents were married.


I have several situations like this where adoptions yield "born before the parents were married" warnings. I think the way to think about such situations is just to treat them as a heads up as something you should look at, mark them as "not a problem", and move on.

Similarly, I have many marriages that are flagged as "too young" or "too old" that are correct, so I just treat them as a heads up, mark them as "not a problem", and move on. My father's maternal grandmother was married at age 12. Truly she was. It's not just an exaggerated birth date and marriage date to make for a good story. My father's paternal grandfather had a brother who was famous in the family for remarrying at age 90. I just mark these things as "not a problem" and move on.

Jerry

#13 Renee Zamora

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 10:04 AM

I have encountered "Fuzzy" math associated with the problem list.

Father & Mother were both born in 1907, Daughter was born in 1926. The problem list says that the father was 9 and the mother was 13 when the daughter was born. Is there a problem or have I missed something?

Thanks


----------------------

I'm running Version 6.3.0.1


I just tested your scenario and I don't have those findings. Check if either parent or child have more than one birth fact and if so which one is marked primary. I've seen some facts have both facts marked primary so check that isn't the case either.
Renee
RootsMagic

#14 Renee Zamora

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 10:07 AM

I couldn't agree more with you. This feature is great & has already enabled me to identify & fix loads of problems. However, RM have just released 6.3.0.1 & no fix yet!



Please tell us how 6.3.0.1 did not fix this issue. We need a backup of your database if you can show us a problem that can be reproduced.
Renee
RootsMagic

#15 JohnG

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:29 AM

I just tested your scenario and I don't have those findings. Check if either parent or child have more than one birth fact and if so which one is marked primary. I've seen some facts have both facts marked primary so check that isn't the case either.


Found it. Mother was married twice and second husband was ten years younger than first. The problen alert was based on the step father's age not the birth father's age. This raises a question - why was she (daughter) compared with her mother and step-father rather than her mother and birth-father's ages.?

The age of mother being 13 at the time of birth was my mistake. It was the mother in relation to the grandmother which I believe is correct.

Thanks for your help
JohnG

#16 Renee Zamora

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:56 AM

Was the child linked to the Step-Father as a father? So the child showed two sets of parents. In that case it won't see that he's a step-parent. It will only evaluated them in the Problem Alert as a parent. If the child does not have the step-father connected directly to them as a parent then it shouldn't be evaluating their relationship and the dates associated with them.
Renee
RootsMagic

#17 JohnG

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:35 AM

Was the child linked to the Step-Father as a father? So the child showed two sets of parents. In that case it won't see that he's a step-parent. It will only evaluated them in the Problem Alert as a parent. If the child does not have the step-father connected directly to them as a parent then it shouldn't be evaluating their relationship and the dates associated with them.


She is linked to her birth-father as "birth" and her mother as "birth" and she is linked to her step-father as "step" and her mother as "birth". Her mother is linked to both spouses as "Husband" and "Wife".

The edit person screen does show both sets of parents.
JohnG

#18 Vyger

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

I just thought I would add my own comments as it is good to put these things under the microscope regardless of how good and welcome a faeture they are, we develop by constantly moving forward through user opinion.

  • I agree with things as they are regarding the problem options
  • My work ethic problem is how I work through problems and some sort of Next button would be great to chip through them. I think that would encourage me to maybe do 5 a day whereas I am not encouraged to do the same through running the problem list, I don't know why, maybe just functionality.
  • Similar NEXT functionality could be employed to other incomplete data like Places and Place Details without geocoding
.

Just thinking out loud, the whole suite of DataClean features are very welcome but as Jerry says a little overwhelming on a large database scale.

Customers should never be frustrated by things they cannot do - demand better

 

User of Family Historian 6.2.7, Rootsmagic 7.6.3, Family Tree Maker 2014 & Legacy 7.5

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#19 trainersbuk

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:54 AM

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Please tell us how 6.3.0.1 did not fix this issue. We need a backup of your database if you can show us a problem that can be reproduced.


The issue still occurs on all my databases. Simple to recreate on any database:

changing the settings in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog causes an immediate search for problems, however, the changes made are not reflected in the problem list. To make changes I had to:

Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List
make the change to the problem report criteria in the dialog & click OK (search automatically performed)
Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List
click OK (search automatically performed again)


Only the second search reflected the problem list in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog criiteria. The first report was created with the settings prior to the criteria change.

#20 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:50 AM

The issue still occurs on all my databases. Simple to recreate on any database:

changing the settings in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog causes an immediate search for problems, however, the changes made are not reflected in the problem list. To make changes I had to:

Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List
make the change to the problem report criteria in the dialog & click OK (search automatically performed)
Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List
click OK (search automatically performed again)


Only the second search reflected the problem list in the Tools -> Problem Search -> Problem List dialog criiteria. The first report was created with the settings prior to the criteria change.


What exact criteria are you using, in both runs? (screenshots would be great)