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Census in People View

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#1 Bill Peacock

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:52 AM

The census date, census place and census place detail do not sort in the correct order in the people view.

#2 Laura

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:23 AM

The user selects the order shown on the People view, Customize this view screen.

After adding the fact parts to the right pane, highlight the fact part and move them up or down with the Move up or Move down buttons.

For facts like Census where it is used multiple times in a person's Edit person screen, only the first use on the Edit person screen will be shown on the People view.

To see the rest of the Censuses for that person, switch to the Timeline view.

#3 Bill Peacock

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:46 PM

For facts like Census where it is used multiple times in a person's Edit person screen, only the first use on the Edit person screen will be shown on the People view.

To see the rest of the Censuses for that person, switch to the Timeline view.



should not that first use of that persons Census fact sort in chronological or alphabetical order with the next persons first use of the census fact.

But what I would really like to be able to do is make a list of people that have a census fact, ether by date or place and have it include the people that share the fact with the head of household. I am able to get a list but but unable to get it to show the people that share the fact.

#4 Bill Peacock

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

The People View will not show any Shared facts even if there is only one occurrence of that fact.

#5 TomH

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:21 PM

But what I would really like to be able to do is make a list of people that have a census fact, ether by date or place and have it include the people that share the fact with the head of household. I am able to get a list but but unable to get it to show the people that share the fact.

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#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

should not that first use of that persons Census fact sort in chronological or alphabetical order with the next persons first use of the census fact.


I strongly suspect (but it would take a great deal of verification) that if there are multiple facts of a specific type that People View will show the first one entered. For example, if you entered an 1860 census fact for a person and then an 1850 census fact for the same person I suspect that People View will always show the 1860 census fact.

There's a wish list item for showing multiple facts for the same person in People View, but doing so would require showing multiple rows for the same person in People View. So the wish is not univerally embraced. Another approach would be a custom report, and a custom report will show multiple rows for the same person when the facts so indicate. But People View is a live report and a custom report is not.

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#7 Laura

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:40 PM

For a live report of multiple facts for the highlighted person, switch to the Timeline view.

#8 Vyger

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:35 AM

I strongly suspect (but it would take a great deal of verification) that if there are multiple facts of a specific type that People View will show the first one entered. For example, if you entered an 1860 census fact for a person and then an 1850 census fact for the same person I suspect that People View will always show the 1860 census fact.


I have also noticed this so your suspicions are correct, people with multiple census entries do not show the earliest by date on People View.

There's a wish list item for showing multiple facts for the same person in People View, but doing so would require showing multiple rows for the same person in People View. So the wish is not univerally embraced. Another approach would be a custom report, and a custom report will show multiple rows for the same person when the facts so indicate. But People View is a live report and a custom report is not.


I perceive the Rootsmagician to be a fan of simplicity as opposed to clutter, however there are two ways this could be achieved without clutter.

1. Add a checkbox to display multiple facts.

2. Display a "+" indication/selction against entries where multiple facts.

Either way since we essentially work backwards in time I believe where multiple events exist the earliest should be the default item displayed on People View.

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#9 Renee Zamora

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

If you have multiple events with the same fact type it will default to the one you mark primary. Just like if you had two birth facts. I wouldn't want the behavior to automatically default to the earliest date. That might not be right one in that situation. I wouldn't want my default fact marked primary jumping around because I later added an earlier event with the same fact either. So defaulting to the first entry or the one you mark as primary is what I like best.
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#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:27 PM

If you have multiple events with the same fact type it will default to the one you mark primary. Just like if you had two birth facts. I wouldn't want the behavior to automatically default to the earliest date. That might not be right one in that situation. I wouldn't want my default fact marked primary jumping around because I later added an earlier event with the same fact either. So defaulting to the first entry or the one you mark as primary is what I like best.


Renee, I think your model makes extremely good sense for facts that inherently only occur one time. But I don't think your model nor indeed the whole People View model really works very well for facts that inherently can occur multiple times such as census or marriage.

It truly is hard to see how to fix it. For example, suppose the sort is on a date rather than being on a column that's related to a person such as the person's name. In this case, I don't think the + sign idea to expand out multiple census entries works very well because then the multiple censuses for a person will not be in the right date order relative to the census entries for all the other people.

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#11 Alfred

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

If you have multiple events with the same fact type it will default to the one you mark primary. Just like if you had two birth facts. I wouldn't want the behavior to automatically default to the earliest date. That might not be right one in that situation. I wouldn't want my default fact marked primary jumping around because I later added an earlier event with the same fact either. So defaulting to the first entry or the one you mark as primary is what I like best.

I have to disagree with you Renee.
I entered three census facts for myself, in this order, 1960, 1950 and 1940. The 1960 one shows up on the People view
I then marked the 1950 one as primary, still the 1960 one shows up there.
Then I tried entering another birth date for myself, before my real birth date, the original date remains on the People view.
I marked the secondary birth fact as the primary one, the original remains on the people view.

All of these were done through several view changes, back to family or pedigree then to people, still the first one entered remains to show up on the people view regardless of which one is marked as primary.
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#12 Vyger

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:08 AM

It truly is hard to see how to fix it. For example, suppose the sort is on a date rather than being on a column that's related to a person such as the person's name. In this case, I don't think the + sign idea to expand out multiple census entries works very well because then the multiple censuses for a person will not be in the right date order relative to the census entries for all the other people.


This is true regarding the + sign approach although in that approach I would expect the earliest DATE example to show non expanded and then when expanded the rest of those facts in DATE order.

Perhaps a combination of "Show Multiple Events" and the + sign are the way forward, if the "Show Multiple Events" was ticked then sorting on the date field would achieve the desired result.

This would be a nice one to overcome through enhancement and consensus, it is one shortcoming to an excellent view IMO.

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#13 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:20 AM

I entered three census facts for myself, in this order, 1960, 1950 and 1940. The 1960 one shows up on the People view
I then marked the 1950 one as primary, still the 1960 one shows up there.


I'm sort of repeating myself now. The "primary" designation makes sense for a fact such as birth, but it makes no sense at all for a fact such as census. What basis wouuld there be for a 1950 census entry being primary over a census entry for 1940 or 1960? And as Alfred's test makes clear, People View doesn't honor the primary designation anyway. People View uses the first instance of a fact that was entered.

Jerry

#14 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:50 AM

This would be a nice one to overcome through enhancement and consensus, it is one shortcoming to an excellent view IMO.


I totally agree that People View is an outstanding feature despite its shortcomings. Indeed, People View is almost like a Custom report except that it's much easier to use than a Custom report and except that it's a live report from which you can edit directly whereas a Custom report is not. In addition, after an editing operation the People View updates itself whereas a Custom report does not. So there are two huge advantages of People View as compared to Custom reports - it's easy and it's live.

But People View has a couple of deficiencies as compared to a Custom report - both have which have been discussed rather thoroughly on these forums. One deficiency in People View is that with a Custom report you can have any number of different report setups and you can save each setup. People View has no mechanism to save column setups. For example, I presently have my columns in People View set up to find and fix people with missing birth dates. So I can't use People View for any other purpose unless I'm willing to destroy my current column setup.

The other deficiency in People View is the one being discussed in this thread where there is only one row per person, for example rendering it impossible to show multiple census facts for a person and to have those multiple rows show up properly if the View is sorted by census date. Custom reports deal with the problem extremely well.

So from a "big picture" perspective, I think what's needed is to bring the best features of Custom reports in to People View.

Jerry

#15 Renee Zamora

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:24 AM

I have to disagree with you Renee.
I entered three census facts for myself, in this order, 1960, 1950 and 1940. The 1960 one shows up on the People view
I then marked the 1950 one as primary, still the 1960 one shows up there.
Then I tried entering another birth date for myself, before my real birth date, the original date remains on the People view.
I marked the secondary birth fact as the primary one, the original remains on the people view.

All of these were done through several view changes, back to family or pedigree then to people, still the first one entered remains to show up on the people view regardless of which one is marked as primary.


Well that's not the way its suppose to work. I tested it myself, even running Database Tools and it would still not show the primary fact. I will add this in our tracking system to fix.

We do already have an enhancement request in the tracking system to allow multiple facts, etc. in the People view.
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