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#21 Laura

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:03 PM

The Title of the Page Number section is clearly titled Source Details. I guess I should have recognized that as being inaccurate even those there is a search parameter for "Marriage source detail is blank." So, all this time I've been searching on Master Source source details!? Who woulda thought there were two source details but only one searchable. Perhaps that needs at


There is not a "Marriage source detail is blank" choice for search.

You can search detail reference number, research text, or detail comments [all entered on the Detail text screen].

On the source search menu, any thing above detail ref# is searching the Master source. Detail ref # and below is searching entries on the Detail text screen.

There is no choice to search on the Page number for Free form or fields for Source template sources that are entered under Source details on the Edit source screen.

#22 Vyger

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

There are a number of search options missing from Rootsmagic and therefore items needing closure, another one is geocoding is blank and I could go on but basically anything that exists within a atabase needs a facility to find and report it.

Other options that should be available under RM Explorer > Find > Search for Information are those that currently exist under Fact Types > Print under the Create List of.. dropdown. Whilst these can be used for creating a List they cannot be used for Group Selection Criteria or a Next > Prior find.

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#23 TomH

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

There is no choice to search on the Page number for Free form or fields for Source template sources that are entered under Source details on the Edit source screen.

But there is search on Fact > Source > footnote contains|does not contain > term . So if Jack used the word "accessed" in all the Page fields he has filled in for the Marriage source, then "does not contain accessed" should find the ones that have not been filled in. (And then some...)

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#24 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

After clicking on the check in the Marriage source column the Citation Manager opens. In the first column of that window is the Source Name. In the second column are the Details. That's what I'm searching for; empty/blank Source Details.

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The Title of the Page Number section is clearly titled Source Details.

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Thanks to everyone for their time, efforts and suggestions.


Jack, let's not give up on this quite yet. If the confusion in terminology is where I think it is, the confusion lies at the feet of the program rather than at your feet or at the feet of anybody making suggestions to try to help.

Let's review. After clicking the green checkmark for sources, you get a window called Marriage Sources for John Doe (or whoever you are looking at). That window is in a spreadsheet or grid format with five columns: Source Name, Details, Source, Information, Evidence. You are interested in the column called Details, but your Find command is not working correctly.

Unfortunately, the column called Details on the Citation Manager window does not correspond to Detail Text when you are doing a Find command. In fact, the column called Details on the Citation Manager window is not directly searchable at all with the Find command. Let me say that again: the column called Details on the Citation Manager window is not directly searchable at all with the Find command. However, the column called Details is searchable with the Find command in sort of an indirect way to be described below.

All of the following are directly searchable with the Find Command. From the Citation Manager, click on Edit tab. You will be in the "Edit Source" window with several tabs.
  • On the "Master text" tab, you will see "Source text" and "Source comments".
  • Source text is searchable in Find as "Source" "text contains" or as "Marriage" "Source" "text contains" etc.
  • Source Comments is searchable in Find as "Source" "comment contains" or as "Marriage" "Source "comment contains" etc.
  • On the "Detail text" tab, you will see "Research notes" and "Comments". Think of these Comments as "Detail Comments".
  • Research Notes is searchable in Find as "Source" "Research note contains" or as "Marriage" "Source" "Research note contains" etc.
  • Detail Comments is searchable searchable in Find as "Source" "Detail Comments note contrains" or as "Marriage" "Source" "Detail Comment contains" etc.
As you can see, the terminology is very confusing. And as you can see, we still haven't gotten to a way where you can search for what you see as the Details column way back on the Citation Manager window. Here's the problem. The contents of the Details column on the Citation Manager screen is not actually a data field. What it actually is is a composite of a number of different fields, and what those fields might be are totally dependant on which source template you are using. In the simplest cases (such as the Freeform Template), the only thing in the the Detail column is what is called the Page Number field (even though you can put lots of things in the Page Number field besides page numbers). But many of the source templates have several different fields which are combined together to become the Details colum on the Citation Manager. And guess what, none of those fields are searchable nor is the composite field searchable. So what to do?

It turns out that the contents of the Details column on the Citation Manager Window will become a part of the Footnote sentence, and the footnote sentence is searchable. However, you can't just search the footnote sentence for a blank because the Footnote Sentence will contain information that is specified to be a part of the Footnote Sentence and it will also contain information from the Details column of the Citation Manager Window. It's easy enough to find information in the footnote sentence that comes from the Details column on the Citation Manager window. But I'll be darned if I see a way to search for cases where the Details column on the Citation Manager window is blank. Maybe I can sleep on it and come up with a way, or maybe somebody else can come up with a way. But I don't see a way right now.

Jerry

#25 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

There is no choice to search on the Page number for Free form or fields for Source template sources that are entered under Source details on the Edit source screen.


You can actually search for them as being contained within the footnote. This has recently made me a happy camper in being able to search for citations containing a specific page number within a book, for example. But you can't easily (or at all?) search to determine if these fields are blank. See my rather too long message immediately above for more information.

Jerry

#26 Laura

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

Tom and Jerry, thanks for teaching me something new today.

#27 TomH

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

Meowww :D
I only just recognised the irony of my ham radio call sign ve3meo!

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
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#28 Jack

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:47 AM

Thanks Laura!

I have been describing here that I am attempting to search the Citation "Source Details;" that little part in the green portion of the Edit Source screen that is clearly labeled "Source Details." Information placed in that area appears on the line that can be seen on the "Citation Manager" screen in the "Details" column, just to the right of the "Source Name" column.

That usable part in the green portion of the citation manager is labeled "Page Number" and the hint says "Page numbers or other details." Sometimes I choose to enter "other details."

Having entered information into a screen that tells me it's for "Source Details" and, seeing that information appear in that "Details" column caused me to presume that I could configure a search for certain "Source Details" and find info there, or better, a lack of info there; e.g., blank!

What I'm hearing is that some other "Source Details" are being searched and I cannot search the above described "Source Details" with any existing search parameter in RM.
Jack

a posteriori

#29 Jack

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:01 AM

Jack, let's not give up on this quite yet. If the confusion in terminology is where I think it is, the confusion lies at the feet of the program rather than at your feet or at the feet of anybody making suggestions to try to help.


Thanks Jerry. I think I understand what you are saying. I have never attempted to analyze the principles of how RM parses input so I was unaware of any such "stuff" as you wrote about.

Actually, all I want to do is make a simple search. :mellow:

One more observation about the ability, or inability to make simple searches for certain "things" in RM: For example, I would love to be able to search for a father named John Smith who had a daughter named Sarah Smith born in KY before 1880 or, after 1774 or between 1774 and 1800. That would be in lieu of looking at every John Smith to see first if he had married and second if he had a daughter named Sarah who was born in some defined time period.
Jack

a posteriori

#30 TomH

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:44 AM

Jack, glad to see you haven't given up. Try this search variant on what I last gave you:

Marriage > source > footnote contains > "Michigan Marriages, 1865-1925" (sans quotes)
AND
Marriage > source > footnote does not contain > "accessed" (sans quotes; or other term you consistently used in the Page field for these citations).

I don't understand what this source has to do with marriages in Indiana; maybe you switched gears in this long thread. If you are wanting to focus on marriages in a locale, then your original
Marriage > place > contains > someplace
can be ANDed with the above criteria.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#31 Jack

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:46 AM

Good morning, Tom,

Yeah, I figured I was not only confusing myself but my "advisers" as well. :)

The very first search parameters you gave me were indeed for Indiana and whatever that date was. I don't remember why I was searching for a date then but, I'm certain I must have changed date to some other fact. As I recall, there are not that many Indiana marriages in my db. Since then I have moved along to other states and their marriage records and images have appeared on line.

So, essentially, I'm still tracking down marriages for which I have not entered what I call "Source Details." I'm thinking perhaps that green part of the citation screen needs to be retitled. I can't be the only person using RM who has been confused by that.

"Marriage > source > footnote contains > "Michigan Marriages, 1865-1925" (sans quotes)
AND
Marriage > source > footnote does not contain > "accessed" (sans quotes; or other term you consistently used in the Page field for these citations)."

I quickly checked this and it seems to do what I want.

Someone could make some quick cash if they put together a book fully explaining how to use the RM search engine. :mellow:
Jack

a posteriori

#32 Renee Zamora

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:11 AM

Later today we should be releasing update 6.0.0.5. This will not be a public release (showing on the RM news screen). You will have to go to the website to download it at: http://www.rootsmagi...tes/RootsMagic/

The reason for this type of release is because it's very small, only two new fixes.
1. Fixed - On This Day Report - historical events not showing
2. Fixed - Search criteria for Sources. I believe the RootsMagician told me it would fix an issue with finding blank sources.

The RootsMagician told me this information rather quickly so I apologize if I got things wrong. He's gone to a meeting so I can't ask more details. Either way I wanted you to know this since we have an active discussion on searching sources right now. You might want to wait for the new update so you can take that into consideration in future discussions.
Renee
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#33 Jack

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:33 PM

Later today we should be releasing update 6.0.0.5. This will not be a public release (showing on the RM news screen). You will have to go to the website to download it at: http://www.rootsmagi...tes/RootsMagic/

The reason for this type of release is because it's very small, only two new fixes.
1. Fixed - On This Day Report - historical events not showing
2. Fixed - Search criteria for Sources. I believe the RootsMagician told me it would fix an issue with finding blank sources.


Thanks Renee! Hopefully it will be useful in resolving some of the search problems we seem to be having...esp. me.
Jack

a posteriori

#34 Jack

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

One of the things I'd like to see added to the search function is the ability to save search parameters.
Jack

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#35 Jack

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

Not up yet, Renee?
Jack

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#36 Renee Zamora

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

6.0.0.5 came out late yesterday. If you go to: http://www.rootsmagi...tes/RootsMagic/ the version is still listed as 6.0.0.4 but when you download you get 6.0.0.5. I let development know we need to change that.
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#37 Jack

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

Thanks, Renee!
Jack

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#38 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:20 PM

Someone could make some quick cash if they put together a book fully explaining how to use the RM search engine. :mellow:


There's a Webinar about searching that's pretty good. It's Webinar #20. http://www.rootsmagic.com/Webinars/

Jerry