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The difference between Tag Media and Share Media

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#1 RegwUK



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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

I have found that when I use tag media to share media files they appear as part of a Media Album for the person. I believe this is correct operation of the software but it causes a problem in that these are tagged in a global Media Album and not a Media Album specific to an event. Therefore at the top of the 'Edit person' you see all media files and not the picture of the person.

Take for example, a census record.
All the details are entered and the .jpg file is stored.
Using Tag Media, you tag the media to all the persons for that census fact but the software can also add the file link to the 'top right of the edit person file'. So you get two 'ticks'. One for the census fact and one in the top right for the person.

If you use Share Media. The event is only shared with the same event for the other persons. There is no files added to the 'top right of the edit person file'.

This appeared in V5 and may be V4 but it has taken a little while and a lot more use of Roots Magic to find where this occurs and why.

Perhaps this is correct operation but this 'feature' causes a problem when you print an Individual report and you have not entered a photo of the person.
When the report is prnted it shows one of the media file records.
( yes, you can untick the photo 'radio button' before generating the report).

I now use Share Media, although a longer process it only links the fact to those persons involved at that fact date. It does not add it to a Global Media file.

I look forward to your thoughts to see if there should be one global Media Album per person or whether it is better to have an individual media file for each fact.

I have changed the Roots Magic Master Source files to make it more UK biased. I now have Master Source file for all the England Census records and some births and some death records. I now need to go back and link my Master Sources to my familes. Before I go and do this I need to understand how best to tag the media files to the persons concerned.


#2 TomH


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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

I don't fully understand your description - there is no 'Share Media' function but there is 'Shared Fact'. Media tagged to a shared fact are accessible via the Media hotlinks for that fact in all sharees' Edit Person screens. I do not think that tagging an image to a shared fact results in it automatically being tagged to the Person who is the Principal at any level other than the fact. The Media Album for a Person includes all General Media (media tagged to the Individual) and all Fact Media including Shared and Family Facts but excluding media tagged to Sources/Citations and Places. The Scrapbook for the Person excludes the media for Shared and Family Facts; the Family Scrapbook mystifies me as it includes images tagged at the Person's Spouse line and to the Residence (fam) fact but not to the Census (fam) fact, at least in my case. So, currently, if you want images from the Census (fam) fact to be included in a Scrapbook, they must be tagged to either the Person orf Family Scrapbook.

Printed reports other than Scrapbook now print only the Primary image tagged to the Person (General), i.e., that which comes up via the checkmark hotlink in the Media column beside Person in the Edit Person screen.

If your goal is to ensure that an image will get printed in a report should there be some tagged to the Person's facts but none to the Individual (General), I don't see a ready way to find and tag those persons within RM6. I think a SQLite query could quickly find those cases.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.

#3 RegwUK



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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:31 PM

Thank you, there seems to be multiple media albums for each person. Every tick under the 'camera' icon shows the media associated to that fact. - Chose Simon Ward and all Media albums are names 'Media Album - Simon Ward'. There is also one that you use to add the photo of the person (top right).
I will try and explain my method of entering census details to see if this helps.
I always add the initial census to the Head of Household,
My procedure is; I use fact type census, add new source named 'Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1891 - Master'
I then Edit the source and save it under the name of the Head of Household, i.e The Household of Simon Ward - 1891
I then edit the Details text to add the details off the census
I then Add new media which is a jpg of the census record

In this Media Album window you can use 'Tag Media'
If you tag the media to exsisting people listed on the census record, two things happen but not always. (Maybe this is linked to the number of people I tag at one time)
1. you get a tick in the 'shared census' of the person on the census. This is shown when you chose the edit person of one of the other people in the census and look at census 1891. I think this is correct working of the software.
2. In the same window, you may also see a tick added at the top right of the Edit person window, Against the persons name coloured in 'BLUE'. I do not think this is correct as this is where you should add the photo of the person. I do not have any photos entered at this place.
If you open this media albumn by pressing the tick, you will see the census record previously tagged in tag media.
Problem is both census records are linked together as it is the same person. I cannot find a way out of the problem becasue both are linked.
To overcome this I have to delete the tag at one point which deletes the other tag and start again.

With all the census records entered you may want ot print it out to see how it reads for the one of the persons in the census records. Using Reports, Individual Summary you have untick photo as you will see the census record at the top of the page. This is where I first saw the problem ( even in V4). This makes me think this is an error with the software but I wanted to discuss the difference between 'tag media' and 'share this fact'.
( Note: I have amended the individual Source templates so that it picks up the correct information to print out).

It does not have to be a census but this shows the problem more perfectly.

I saw the benefits of Roots Magic and have stuck with the software. Now I have made 'masters' of the UK census records, births, deaths, marriages. I need to understand what I am doing wrong when I use Tag Media before going back to update my 200 people listed. Not many but enough to get it right the first time.

Well, I used to have the problem but now I find that if I use the 'Share this fact' button. You get the tick in the right place (shared census) of that person and you never get a tick in the top right hand corner. You can then see the census derived from the Head of Household.

I have tested the Integrity of the database and everything is OK.

Now I see the real potential of Roots Magic when printing facts as for one person, I have their birth, census records of their parents, census details of themselves, marriage, census details for their children and death. This includes the dates and details all in one document. Brilliant.

Tag Media will make this a faster operation but I need to understand what I am doing wrong.

Will need to sort out how to easily print a family tree but that's another story. Formatting is abismal to get it fit to A4 paper size

#4 TomH


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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

Maybe it's just semantics but there is but one Media Album for a Person with a filter for General (the Individual alone or those Media tagged to the Person row)), Family (those tagged to the Spouse row), Family (those tagged to the Parents row), and one for each fact. When you click on a Media checkbox, you open the one Media Album for that Person with the corresponding filter. When you open the Person Media from the toolbar on the main view with the same person selected, you open the same Media Album with no filter (All media). Any time you have the Media Album open, you can choose any filter. Unfortunately, the Media Album does not (yet) tell you which filters have media (Renee - wish list :) ).

Reading your procedure, I think I understand where you are erring. It sounds like you are tagging the census image to Persons (i.e., General) instead of to the Census fact or to its Citation or to the Source of the citation. This may be desired if you want the Census image to print out in the Person Scrapbook but census images are rather large for that purpose. Indeed, it sounds like you are tagging the census image to Persons (General) before you have shared the Census fact. If you want the image to be accessible at the Fact level for each sharee, you merely tag the image once to the shared fact. Because it is a shared fact, the fact details, including Note, Sources, Media, Date, Place, Description are common to all sharees. Add another sharee and it inherits the same things. Change one of them in any sharee and all get the same change.

It also sounds like you are making this one census image a Master Source - that sounds like splitting in the extreme but I may have misread. It sounds like you have a master source named "The Household of Simon Ward - 1891" but maybe that is just a field value for a master source named "Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1891 - Master", which would be a more reasonable lump for multiple citations. In the first case, you might want to also or alternatively tag the image to the master source. In the second case, it is logical that it be tagged to the (shared) citation (Note only one tag is needed in either case to cover all sharees).

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.

#5 RegwUK



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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Thank you again,
I now understand the Media Album and I will not use Tag Media until there is a filter on the Person Media or perhaps if this is not possible a way of marking one of the files as the 'default' (just like in the Control panel for printers, you can select a default printer, select a default .jpg). Another tick box!

I used to use the share a fact method but I saw that Bruce used Tag Media in one of the web-in-airs. This seems a good way of tagging the census records to a person. I now cannot see why you want to use this feature as it will cause problems in the Person Media file.

I have edited the source template and I have one for each census period. I have named each as follows "Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) NNNN - Master", where NNNN is 1841, 1851, 1861 etc to 1911. I had to do this as each census has different headings for the Villiage, Town etc. All the headings are tagged to be ' Details fields'. In this way as I have family in difeerent parts of the UK the information can now be easily entered as I have made hints to help me.
When I Add a New Source to the census fact I choose the correct Master for the year and I save it under the name of the Head of Household. i.e. "The Household of Simon Ward - 1891"
I have always used a method like this,
a. enter a fact
b. choose a template
c save the template with a new name when asked to save the Master Source
It looks as if I am making too many Master Sources

Similarly I have edited a marriage and death templates so that I can enter the details off these certificates. You may think this is a bit over the top but I wanted a printed copy of the information I was entering. And also when I viewed a person I would see as much useful information from the certificates that I could.
Now I have a printed copy and I also can see the detials when I veiw the person record.
Again plenty of Master Sources for each marriage or death.

I believe the way I am using the Master Sources is a valid way as it is mentioned in one of the web-in-airs.

You just do not know difficult it has been trying to enter the UK census information into Roots Magic. I bit the bullet in V5 to see how I could modify the database and now after 3 months of evenings at the pc I think I am quite a way forward. I now need to go back and update all my other family members.
When I printed the census information I found that I had a census record where I did not want it to be displayed.

(My method of seeing how my changes were being interpreted by the software was to print a persons file. I changed the template and then saw where the changes were made in the body of the text, or footnote, or short footnote or Bibliography).

I am sure my changes are GEDCOM compatable but the Roots Magic Team must remember that when us novice users first purchase the software all we want is a repeatable and easy way of entering the data. I have struggled in the UK in using your Templates right from V3/V4. I have persevered and now Roots Magic is Magic.

In someways I think that the census records should be part of the Scrap book as although they are large pictures it is part of the persons life story. It shows where they lived and who lived with them.

I am pleased to have received your support with my Tag Media problems. It now makes a lot more sense.

#6 TomH


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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

I guess I remain puzzled as to what exactly you are saying because your use of terminology seems to be inconsistent and sometimes at odds with itself. For that matter, to a minor extent, I have experienced some confusion within my use of RootsMagic and its Help system and I do empathise with your experience on the learning curve. Source Templates, Sources and Citations are especially challenging, in spite of the goal of making them easy to use - I think RM fell short of the objective!

A picture being a thousand words, a video conference to review and discuss what you are doing and how would be worth tens of thousands. Not only am I unclear about your procedures but I don't think you have fully understood what I explained and may still have some misconceptions about the way RM functions. That said, your course of experimentation, examining results of this change or that, is certainly an effective method of learning.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.

#7 MJW



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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

Hi RegwUK

Like Tom I don’t completely follow your process and terminology.

You mentioned difficulties with recording UK censuses. I don’t know whether this will help (and not wanting to teach you to suck eggs) but I can tell you how I record them. I live in the UK and enter lots of England & Wales Census records, and have used RM for over 5 years since RM3.

In my early use of RM, I tried several different ways of entering and using sources & citations. I made mistakes, based on not really understanding the difference between a source (master) and citations. I read many postings on this forum, and found a method that works for me. I have now used the same method for 5 years – I’ve made minor tweaks (as new functions appeared in RM) but the basic approach is unchanged. At the moment, I only use the Free-Form format for all my sources.

Whilst my approach will probably not appeal to the source purists and more academically-minded, it works for me by:-

- being easy to use and understand

- generating an accurate useful source reference in the reports I use

- clearly showing where I got the information from

- allowing me (or others) to go back to the source

I create one master source record for each census year & country, e.g. 1841 Census (England), 1851 Census (England), 1861 Census (England) etc. The master source simply contains source name, date of census and the repository. I use a similar convention for Scotland & Ireland.

To record census information, I add a census (or census family) fact entering year and address, and then using “Cite existing source” select the appropriate year entry from the master source list. Then, in the Edit Source screen that appears, I go into “Detail Text” & enter census reference data (class, piece, folio, page) in the (top) reference field and record an extract/summary from the census household in “Research Notes” (as it is called from RM5 onwards).

At the moment, I just enter details of the head of household – e.g. Head: John Smith (age 52, cotton weaver, b. Manchester). I have considered entering all family/household members but I haven’t done this yet. I add a census fact to all other family members found and add a source citation using the “memorise/paste” function (from Citation Manager). I also add other facts/events to family members, where useful, such as occupation, birth place and approximate year of birth.

I use the Notes field to highlight anything particularly interesting or unusual on the census.

I add the census image as media to the census fact - and use “tag media” to tag against the census fact for each family member. I do not add media to the source as I don’t find the reporting & displaying of this useful in RM at the moment.

#8 RegwUK



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Posted 05 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

Hello Everyone,
Sorry that my wording is not too clear. I do understand TomH and his comments, thank you for these. Thanks also to MJW for their explaination of entering a UK Census record. I see that there some similarities in how I started to use Roots Magic.

I got so frustrated when using the Source Types as they were USA biased and I wanted to enter as much information that I could from a UK census record or UK certificate.
I now have the following Sources;
"Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1841 - Master",
"Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1851 - Master",
"Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1861 - Master",
"Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1871 - Master",
"Birth Certificate, local level (Copy) - Master
"Death Certificate, local level - Master
"Marriage Certificate (Church) - Certified Copy of an Entry of Marriage - Church Banns - Master"

I will explain what the census Master contains in the text below and why I have gone down the path I have.

My new method of entering a census record is
Take for instance the 1871 Census detials for Simon Ward
Choose person. - Simon Ward
a. enter a Fact Type -- I choose 'Census', (not Census family) I saw this mentioned on a web-in air as a better way of entering a census record.
b. choose a template -- I should have said 'Add a New Source' here I will see all the templates that I have modified and I choose "Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1871 - Master", (they are part of my favourites)
Fill In these New Source Details.
I have edited the template so that this Master Source only contains;
Country -- I add 'England' in this field
Generic ID - here I add ' 1871 Census of England' Note: I change this field to relate to the year of the census on the other master sources.

I have edited this template in this way so that the "Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL copy) 1871 - Master" could be used anywhere in the UK for that year. This means that I have made all the headings which appear on the census form as Source Details. When I first started on my quest to enter UK census records and trying to modify of the Source templates I was having to save a Master Source file for Henley, one for Brighton, one for Plymouth etc to suit the information from the census records. This was because each census record had a different Administrative County and Registration District. I wanted to add as much information from the census record as I could into Roots Magic. In this way I was hoping that I could extract as much history for a particular ancestor.

In the end and after many tries I thought it better to move the Administartive County, Registration District etc to become Source Details rather than Master Details. This means I have one Master Census Source for each year. Now V6 has Search - Find everywhere then it looks promising.

Therefore the Source Details contains;
Administrative County
Registration District
Civil Parish
etc etc
GRO reference
S_N Reference - From The Genealogist

c. When all the information is entered I press the OK button and Roots Magic asks me to enter a Master Source Name. I enter the name of the Head of Household as follows- "The Household of Simon Ward - 1871"

I then choose this 1871 Census fact to add the census details. I select Edit Details and paste the census details into the Research Notes window.
To do this I I use my subscription to The Genealogist so I look up the census record, print preview the Household, copy this into MS word, I edit by using MS Word and I then copy the text back into Roots Magic but into the Research Notes + plus I add a blank line at the top ( if it did not have a blank line the No: 30 would not start on a new line, my formatting work around when the details are printed).

This gives me in the research Notes;
Number on Schedule: 20
Road, Street Name: Norwich Hill
Simon Ward 38 Head Sawyer of Wood Suffolk Ipswich
Mary Ward 30 Wife Oxon Henley
John Ward 3 Son Bucks Hambleden
(this may seems a long winded way but when there are many members of the family listed it saves on the typimg errors and the formatting is consistant)

I save the original census record (jpg) under the head of household and I now use 'Share a fact' to share the census jpg with the other family members.

The main reason for editing the original 'Census, England, Wales (microfilm, FHL' template was that when I printed an Individual Summary in V4 say, the headings did not make much sense to a UK census. Now that I have edited the template and edited the foot notes etc, the template is in a better format so that they can be printed correctly.

I have done the same to a Birth, Marriage and Death template to give my Birth, Marriage, Death -- Master Source Types.

To show you what information is now printed, I will Choose Simon Ward for the Individual Summary. (Select Reports, Individual Summary) Note: The End Notes contain all the certifcate details and census details as I have entered them. The headings come from the Footnotes Notes of the My Master Sources and the Research Notes are as entered..

The information on the screen is shown under a number of headings and here is what I see;
On the Individual Summary,
this shows his Name, sex, father, mother
On the List of Individual Facts,
this shows Birth, census headings, Death - (all with dates and places, all Chronologically listed)
On the Marriage and Children,
this shows spouse, marriage date, place and lists children and their birth and death years. - all Chronologically listed.

End Notes . Here is what is now shown
1.Simon Ward, birth certificate, 15 July 1833, GRO, BXF 45834, 12th October 2012, Births Sept 1833 Ward Simon, Acle 3a 456
No: 32
When and where born: Fifteenth July 1833 Canley
Name, if any: Simon
Sex: Boy
Name and surname of father: Thomas Ward
Name, surname and maiden name of mother: Amelia Ward formerly Seymour
Occupation of father: Wood Turner
Signature, description and residence of informant: A. Ward mother Acle
When registered: Third August 1833
Signature of registrar: Wm Harding Registrar

2. 1871 Census of England, Oxfordshire, Henley, Suuningdale, RG11/453/...,S& N reference, CD1 ..
Number on Schedule: 20
Road, Street Name: Norwich Hill
Simon Ward 38 Head Wood Turner Canley, Acle
Mary Ward 30 Wife Oxon Henley
John Ward 3 Son Bucks Hambleden

3. 1881 Census of England, Oxfordshire, Henley, Porchester, RG11/453/...,S& N reference CD5...
Number on Schedule: 22
Road, Street Name: Norwich Hill
Simon Ward 48 Head Labouer Suffolk Ipswich
Mary Ward 40 Wife Oxon Henley
John Ward 13 Son Bucks Hambleden
Matilda Ward 5 Dau Oxon Henley

4. 1891 Census of England etc ..... footnotes from the Template
Number on Schedule: 56
Road, Street Name: Waet Street, St Albans
Simon Ward 58 Head Labouer Suffolk Ipswich
Mary Ward 50 Wife Oxon Henley
Matilda Ward 15 Daug Oxon Henley

5. 1901 Census of England etc

6. 1911 Census of England and Wales

7. Simon Ward, death certificate similar headings as birth but showing death GRO reference
No: 231
When and where died: Tenth December, 1913. General hospital Plymouth
Name and Surname: Simon Ward
Sex: Male
Age: 80 years
Occupation: of Our House, Somewhere, Reading, Oxon. General Labourer
Cause of Death: I. (a) Bronche pneumonia. II. Cardiac failure. Certified by Michael Allin, L. R. C. P.
Signature, description and residence of informant: J Ward, son. Nottingham
When registered: Fifteenth December, 1913
Signature of registrar: T. E Thomas

8. Simon Ward Mary House married, GRO ref etc. ....from the footnotes
No: 408
When Married: December 27 1853
Name and surname: Simon Ward, Mary Arthur
Age: 22 years, 21 years
Condition: Bachelor, Spinster
Rank or Profession: Labourer, ----------
Residence at the time of Marriage: A house, Acle, A house Canley
Father’s Name and Surname: George Ward, Anthony Arthur
Rank or Profession of Father: Wood Turner, Labourer
This Marriage was solemnized between us,Simon Ward, Mary Arthur
In the Presence of us, Peter Swadling, Sarah Ann Smith
Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church, by ---------- or after Banns by me,
Peter Wright, Rector.

This is followed by the bibliography.

The information above does not show the 1841, 1851 or 1861 census details but these are of a similar format. Therefore I now have a printable history of my ancestor. From their birth to their death with suitable headings and research notes. This includes every census record and who they lived with etc. Similarly, I am hoping that when I add any other fact types such as Baptism or war memorial facts etc these will be added to the Individual Summary. It is early days as I have entered baptism and 'war' facts for another ancestor but I need to go back and edit their census records and then print the individual concerned. Fingers crossed Eh!.

Similarly I use the Notes field to highlight anything particularly interesting or unusual on the census or any certificate. These notes are also printed.

If I had used Tag Media to tag the census to the persons I would have seen a small picture of a census at the top above the name of Simon Ward. -- This is what started the discussion.
Thank you for your help on this point, I now do not use Tag Media.

How Do I view the details entered into Roots Magic.
Adding the details in this way also allows me to see all these details entered when I choose the Citation manager of that Fact
I see the Source Name - The Household of Simon Ward - 1871 and the details which I have entered as Source Details for this source. I can open this file and edit it if required.

I do not think I can explain this any further. I see that it may not make sense if you do not have the Templates which I have modified. Sorry for that but I hope the Individual Summary of Simon Ward shows what I am trying to achieve and where I am so far.
The tag media problem has diverted my efforts.

#9 TomH


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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:17 PM

I think I now understand what you are doing with Source Templates and Sources, RegwUK. Apart from nomenclature, what underlies my puzzlement was that you are using an unanticipated division between the Master Source and Source Details that is opposite to the way that you create and name your Sources. That is to say, your Source Template specification promotes the lumping of all censuses for a country for all years under just one Master Source because the only field in the Master Source is [country]; your usage, however, splits the censuses up into a Master Source for each household for each year. Your Source Template spec is that of an extreme lumper; your usage is that of an extreme splitter. Your Bibliography has many entries, growing with each new household in each year versus just one, "Censuses of England". Because all fields but Country are in Source Details, you have much repeated data entry to do, regardless of whether you used but one Master Source or one per household.

The built-in Source Template was designed to support an intermediate level between these extremes, i.e., a Master Source for each different combination of Country, CensusID, Jurisdiction, CivilDivision. Thus the number of Master Sources is fewer, those fields are filled but once (along with ArchivalID, Repository, RepositoryLoc, and FilmID), and the Bibliography is shorter. In my own case, I tend to lump a little more than this, at the State or Province level, in the case of the US and Canada and would move Civil Division down to Source Details.

As for tagging the census image, certainly tag it to the Census Fact for the person for the convenience of being able to access it directly from the Edit Person or RootsMagic Explorer or TimeLine View screens. Also tag it to the Citation so that it can be accessed while editing the citation. There is no need to tag it to the Person but there is no harm. Uncheck the Include in Scrapbook and Primary checkboxes to prevent it from coming out in reports. Even without tagging to the Person, if you open the Person Album, media tagged to the Person's events show in it and thus can be accessed while in any main view.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.