Jump to content


Photo

Record Number = Reference number


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Jim Belanger

Jim Belanger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 658 posts

Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:11 AM

I am computer illiterate but have used this program since the days of Parsons Technology and Family Origins. I have asked (begged) for an option to select which would make the reference number automatically be equal to the record number. When that resulted in no positive response, I asked for an update option which would go thru the database and make the reference number equal to the record number. No response to that. So, I had a very nice RM user take my 167,000+ name database and make all reference numbers equal to record number and make the sort date equal to 1 and make it "private". Now, the reference number appears at the top of each record and I can select to print it in reports or not from the "private" setting. OK, so now what's my issue? The reference number in many records seems to disappear. I can't prove it but, it seems that there are many records where I think there was a reference number, a sort date of 1 and a private option which are not blank and I have to re-enter them. This disappearance worries me as, if it is actually happening (and I can't prove that 100% of the records were updated by this Good Samaritan), is there other data that is missing??

Anyway, for what it's worth, I thought I would make one more plea for an option to automatically make the reference number equal to the record number so it could be used in large databases where hundreds of names are exactly the same and record numbers brings you right to the correct person.

Jim
JIM.B.NH

#2 Nettie

Nettie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1527 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:09 PM

Have you run a report on that fact type. To see what was really in the file. I know I think something is there then run the report and it is not. Just a suggestion. :mellow:

Wow it worked... Thank you.... :mellow: :mellow:

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#3 Jim Belanger

Jim Belanger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 658 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:55 PM

I tried to run a "list" report of all persons who did NOT have a reference number.
The program simply kept telling me it was Creating a Fact List and never stopped.
I finally had to cancel it after waiting way too long.
JIM.B.NH

#4 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

I just ran a list report for person's not having the reference number fact and came up with 331 pages and a list report for persons having the reference number fact was 291 pages. Both reports came up within seconds. I have 17,192 people in my database.

Those reports would take much longer to create for 167,000+ people. Although minipulating your database may have caused problems also, and perhaps you could ask the person who did that work for you what the problem might have been caused by the method used in changing your database outside of RM.

Have you gone to Files, Database tools and run those tools? And then retried the report?

Perhaps the wish should be to have the choice to print the record number in all reports and/or interactive reports where you can go directly to the person from the report.

The People view has brought us a quicker way to find which same name person we are looking for. Decide which facts best helps to tell the difference between people and customize the view with those facts, Birth date and place, Death date and place, occupation, residence, etc. Or make a Group, people with same name with any fact contains Texas, for instance, and choose the Group in the People view. Put the Sidebar in Family view.

I add an Alternate fact to same named persons with something in the Suffix field that identifies that person to me, parents, grandparents, residence, brothers or sisters, etc. I probably don't have as many same named people as you do but I can pretty quickly find who I want with the Anternate name showing in the People view and Family view in the Sidebar and the right facts customized in the People view.

#5 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:01 PM

I would try the people view, customize it so that you only have the Name, record number and Reference number.
Then click once or twice on the reference number heading to sort up or down on that number.

All of the people without a reference number will be at the top end with the little triangle pointing down.

If there aren't too many, you can edit each one and add the number.
Alfred

#6 Renee Zamora

Renee Zamora

    Advanced Member

  • Support
  • PipPipPip
  • 7584 posts

Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:27 AM

Confirming we have an enhancement request to automatically assign the Record No. as a Reference No. fact for an individual in our tracking system. This would be an option or tool.

This is not only good for what Jim wants but will help those the use the RIN as a filing system number. Moving the RIN to a Ref No would help in making their numbering systems stable.

I assign everyone a Ref No in my database. To check that each person has one I use the method Alfred describes. I sort in the People View on the Ref No fact to find those that are missing.
Renee
RootsMagic

#7 Jim Belanger

Jim Belanger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 658 posts

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

Thanks all. Alfred, your suggestion worked but I have two glitches. I did what you suggested and was able to find all people with the surname I was seeking who didn't have a reference number. I wrote down the record numbers and then updated those. But, thinking ahead, I thought "why not form a group with that surname?". So, I tried that. Created a new group with the surname. During that process, the program told me it found 56,000 plus (can't remember the exact number) with that surname. Continuing, I was asked to name the group; which I did. Then, when I clicked OK, the program locked up. It did this on my laptop and on my PC twice. I had to do a CTL-ALT-Dlt to terminate RM5 and the group never got saved.

The second glitch is: if I sort that "people" list with Name, Rec #, Ref # on the record number, they all seem fine. If I sort on the Ref #, I miss some numbers. I went into the missing number people and re-entered the ref number thinking that there might be a space before or after the number causing them not to sort in the right place; to no avail. The numbers go like this after the sort: Numbers 1 to 15 are missing, 16 is there, 17 to 19 are missing, 32 to 36 are missing, 38 is missing, I scrolled down thru the first 10,000 and did not find those numbers appearing. They must be somewhere but I can't find them. It's no biggee but just thought I would mention it.
JIM.B.NH

#8 Renee Zamora

Renee Zamora

    Advanced Member

  • Support
  • PipPipPip
  • 7584 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:46 AM

I checked with the RootsMagician and there is no limit to the number of people that can be added to a group. I don't have such a large database to test your issue. Try using File>Database Tools>Rebuild Indexes before creating the group.

Not really following what's happening to your People List and missing Reference Numbers. Are you saying you added Reference Numbers but they are not showing up. Rebuild the index and see if they do.
Renee
RootsMagic

#9 Jim Belanger

Jim Belanger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 658 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

What I am saying is that I believe people that had a reference number entered with a sort date set to the number "1" and the Private block selected are either losing their sort date setting and Private setting or having the reference number dropped. I have now determined that everyone in the database with that surname has a reference number. So, if I come up with any missing from now on, I will know the program is dropping it.

On the group issue. I select the People View, Select the Group, create a new group, select people by Surname = Belanger, the program goes thru its work and comes up with 56,658 people, I click OK, it asks me for a group name, I enter Belangers, I click OK, the program locks up and I have to do a CTL-ALT-DEL to get out of it. Nothing else works.
JIM.B.NH

#10 TomH

TomH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5695 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:52 PM

I think this is not a matter of RM dropping records or data but rather that the sorting of the Reference No. column in People View appears inconsistent in his database and that the REFN facts were not uniformly added.

I have Jim's database from when (June 2011) it had almost 162,000 individuals in it (6000 fewer than now) and was the one to do an SQLite query on it to add a REFN fact with a description value equal to the Record Number (Rec#). He had already manually entered some 4000 such REFN facts of the form 1, 2, 3 ... and some with leading 0's, e.g., 000058; in some cases he had additional text so I left all of his REFN facts untouched. My query added the REFN facts to all other persons lacking a REFN, in the form 1, 2, 3, ..., i.e., an additional 158,000 REFN facts. Since then he has added another 6000 persons, each, presumably, with a manually entered REFN fact.

When People View is sorted on the Rec# column, the supposedly missing records 1-15, etc. are displayed in the order they should be. However, when sorted on Reference No., they are not. The list starts at 16, skips 18 and 32-36, etc. These 'missing' ones can be found way down the list. Comparing this with the original database, it is apparent that the 'missing' ones are the ones entered manually via RM while the ones at the top of the list (16, 17, 19-31, 37, etc.) were added by SQLite query. It appears that the sorting algorithm in People View sorted all the REFNs added by the query first, in numerical order, and then the manually entered ones next, in alphabetical order, e.g., 029730, 076364, 1, 10, 100095. SQLite is quite loose as to data types so I'm guessing that my query resulted in a numeric type while those REFNs added through the Description field in the Edit Person screen are explicitly cast as text. The RM sorting algorithm appears to detect the data type and handles them accordingly, numeric first as number values, text second in place-sensitive alphabetical order.

The query Copy RIN to REFN should result in a text data type because the string "RIN" is included in the value. It also provides options for leading zeroes so that the sorting will be consistent with that of the Rec# column. Neither "RIN" nor leading zeroes were included in the query I used on Jim's database.

As to the possible resetting of the Private flag, I note that they were inconsistent in the original REFNs Jim manually added. As I left these untouched, they may well be the ones that he is now discovering. I had provided him with two Named Groups with which he could check his prior work and my additions:

Regarding the creation of a group of Belangers, On the smaller version, RM finds 53,332 persons and Windows Task Manager reports RM using 648,048K. As Jim reports, having named the group, RM appears to be doing nothing. However, WTM reports that 50% of my dual processor AMD CPU is being used by RM with a small increase to 649,140K memory used and that the application is "Not responding". If left long enough, I suspect it might complete the task but, clearly, it is very inefficient and a real impediment to using RM with large databases. Ah, it did complete after about 13 minutes! (and this was on 5.0.3.1 on a Toshiba Win 7 notebook with 4GB RAM and AMD Turion II P540 2.4GHz dual core processor).

Jim, if it would be of help, I could re-do your REFN facts, all of them, except those you might flag as special, so that they all have leading zeroes and sort alphabetically in the same order as the Rec#.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.