Jump to content


Photo

Add a fact, Census(Family) includes Children


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 hiramknick

hiramknick

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:45 AM

In the Edit Person Dialog Adding a census fact using the family should prompt for more than the spouse, but also allow you to specify the children that appear on the census document from the list of children in the Roots Magic file.

I could foresee this as two forms, first for the spouse, then to select children or as an optional field to choose children that appear in the census. It would speed up the time required to record Census info for children in a family considerably...

Thanks!

#2 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3670 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:50 AM

In the Edit Person Dialog Adding a census fact using the family should prompt for more than the spouse, but also allow you to specify the children that appear on the census document from the list of children in the Roots Magic file.

I could foresee this as two forms, first for the spouse, then to select children or as an optional field to choose children that appear in the census. It would speed up the time required to record Census info for children in a family considerably...

Thanks!

I have a hard time seeing how this would work. I always come back to the opinion that what RM5 calls family facts are not really family facts. They are really spousal facts, applying to the spouses but not really to the children. The issue to me is not so much one of data entry, where you are wishing for an improvement in the way you enter census data for an entire family. Rather the issue to me is the way family facts appear in reports. The way family facts appear in reports, the facts have nothing to do with the children. In reports, family facts have to do only with the spouses.

Jerry

#3 Nettie

Nettie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1661 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

I have a hard time seeing how this would work. I always come back to the opinion that what RM5 calls family facts are not really family facts. They are really spousal facts, applying to the spouses but not really to the children. The issue to me is not so much one of data entry, where you are wishing for an improvement in the way you enter census data for an entire family. Rather the issue to me is the way family facts appear in reports. The way family facts appear in reports, the facts have nothing to do with the children. In reports, family facts have to do only with the spouses.

Jerry


I agree with Jerry. :) What would be nice if we could just copy the fact like we used to be able to in RM3 and paste in each child's census fact. Although, if you set up the sentence in a specific way you will still have to modify each source detail section for each child.:(

Better to keep it like it is.:)

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#4 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 03:35 PM

What would be nice if we could just copy the fact like we used to be able to in RM3 and paste in each child's census fact.

Better to keep it like it is.:)


Nettie, I'm not sure what your meaning is with this statement as we have never been able to copy a fact from one person to another in any version.

Were you perhaps talking about memorizing and pasting sources? We can still do that.

I agree that I would like to have the ability to copy a fact including the note, linked media and source and source citation, not to take the place of shared facts.

#5 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:52 PM

I was playing around and thought of a way to duplicate a fact and it's sources for several people.

Create a new, empty database and enter a person with a definitive name, I used Work Work and never gave it a sex or any birth death facts.
Then I entered a personal census fact and added a source with as much information as I could think of.

Then I dragged this person into my TEST database nine times, dropping it onto each of the parents and the seven children in a family, checking the mark that it was the same person each time.
I then had to go to each of those people and delete the alt name fact of Work Work from each of them.

Now, they each have the identical fact and source citation.

It aint rocket science but it works... I just have too much time on my hands! ;)
Alfred

#6 Nettie

Nettie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1661 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:21 PM

I was playing around and thought of a way to duplicate a fact and it's sources for several people.

It aint rocket science but it works... I just have too much time on my hands! ;)


I like your comment Alfred. Thanks for a possible work around.

Laura I do not remember which version we could the memorize and paste of the whole fact, but I remember doing it. I like Alfred's work around and will try it. Yes I do memorize the source and paste it many of time but retyping the date, place and sentence[ desc] section is extra work. I figured out that you could copy the desc part to the clipboard and it worked to paste each time I needed it. they must be two separate parts of the database, like Jerry and TomH have said in the past messages.

But I guess as a retiree have time to do it. :)

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#7 TomH

TomH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6284 posts

Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:30 AM

Good work, Alfred! It's amazing the tricks that you and Laura come up with using just RM and maybe a text editor to solve problems that I would turn to SQLite for a workaround.
Fact Memorize and Paste is in the tracking system. See http://forums.rootsm...dpost__p__43894

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#8 Glenn

Glenn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 562 posts

Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

Create a new, empty database and enter a person with a definitive name, I used Work Work and never gave it a sex or any birth death facts.
Then I entered a personal census fact and added a source with as much information as I could think of.
Then I dragged this person into my TEST database nine times, dropping it onto each of the parents and the seven children in a family, checking the mark that it was the same person each time.
I then had to go to each of those people and delete the alt name fact of Work Work from each of them.
Now, they each have the identical fact and source citation.
It aint rocket science but it works... I just have too much time on my hands! ;)

Alfred, isn't there some way to search for and delete those "Work Work" alternate names in one operation?
Go to "Alt Name containing Work Work and delete fact". This is probably not the best wording, but I hope you understand anyway! :rolleyes:

Glenn


Good real estate may be based on location, location, location;
but
good sources are based on citation, citation, citation!


Glenn


#9 Alfred

Alfred

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5734 posts

Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:18 PM

Alfred, isn't there some way to search for and delete those "Work Work" alternate names in one operation?
Go to "Alt Name containing Work Work and delete fact". This is probably not the best wording, but I hope you understand anyway! :rolleyes:

Glenn


I don't think there is a way to delete them all at once short of exporting a and importing a complete GEDCOM after turning the GEDCOM export of Alt Name off. AND, that would remove ALL alternate names.

BY the way, I forgot to EMPHASIZE that that I used the personal Census fact. It won't work with the Census(family) fact, or any family fact for that matter, because you have to use it on a couple and dragging and dropping one person will not carry the family facts over.
Alfred

#10 Jerry Bryan

Jerry Bryan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3670 posts

Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

There is still a big need for a "copy fact" feature in RM5. Shared facts are not a substitute for a true "copy fact" capability.

However, it might be useful to consider what might be done with the two ideas in common. For example, I would probably use shared facts if I could easily turn them into unshared facts. I would think of shared facts as an aid to data entry, but then I would want my database to contain only unshared facts after the data entry was complete.

Jerry

#11 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:07 PM

I was playing around and thought of a way to duplicate a fact and it's sources for several people.

Create a new, empty database and enter a person with a definitive name, I used Work Work and never gave it a sex or any birth death facts.
Then I entered a personal census fact and added a source with as much information as I could think of.

Then I dragged this person into my TEST database nine times, dropping it onto each of the parents and the seven children in a family, checking the mark that it was the same person each time.
I then had to go to each of those people and delete the alt name fact of Work Work from each of them.

Now, they each have the identical fact and source citation.

It aint rocket science but it works... I just have too much time on my hands! ;)


Great idea, Alfred

Trying this out, I discovered that if you add the source to the fact to the Work Work person in the new database and drag and drop into the main database, it can add a duplicate source to the Master source list if you have extra line returns in the source in the main database. Drag and Drop deletes those returns. In that case, the Master sources would need to be merged.

I will be linking the source and source detail to one person in the database and then memorize and paste it into others records when I delete the Work Work Alternate name.

#12 Laura

Laura

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4276 posts

Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:51 PM

There is still a big need for a "copy fact" feature in RM5. Shared facts are not a substitute for a true "copy fact" capability.

However, it might be useful to consider what might be done with the two ideas in common. For example, I would probably use shared facts if I could easily turn them into unshared facts. I would think of shared facts as an aid to data entry, but then I would want my database to contain only unshared facts after the data entry was complete.

Jerry


I think that would probably entail negating the roles, role sentences and switches you can use with shared facts which would do away with all the advantages sharing facts has for printing in the narrative report.

I would rather see the Shared fact for the Sharee be treated as if it was a linked individual fact and the Sharree's name and the fact data to be added to search, search lists, Groups, and reports as it is presently for the Principal.

I would like the shared fact for the Sharee to be exported as a linked individual fact in gedcoms when the special features of RM is unmarked.

Then we wouldn't need a fact copy and paste feature.

I am adding both individual linked census facts and a shared fact to take advantage of both entry methods.

I created a ! Shared census user defined fact to share censuses. This is the fact I share for censuses, and it is checked to only print in narrative reports. And I mark and unmark it to exclude in gedcoms as needed.

Since I want the census for each person to export in a gedcom for use in third party programs, I also add the Census fact to each person.

What I do is add the Census fact to the Principal and compete all the entry, note, Citation, etc. Memorize the source.

Then I add the ! Shared census and copy the date, place, note, and paste the source. I share the fact and enter Sharee notes.

I have been going to each Sharee's Edit person screen and adding the Census fact and copy and pasting the date, place, and note from the ! Shared fact and pasting the memorized source.

In the future, I will be using Alfred's method to copy the Census fact into the Sharees records except I will not enter the source. I will create and then memorize and paste the source into each individual;s Census fact when I delete the Alternate name so I don't have to merge the extra source added to the Master source list on drag and drop in my database.

I'm glad I'm just a user and not the programmer that has all the work of trying to decide what wishes to incorporate and how to do it and do all the programming to make it happen. :)

#13 devonroots

devonroots

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 03:49 AM

I would still like to have the option of including all members of the family in one entry. I have to input a lot of census entries and include a note to each one so that I can find the original image on my computer easily. It would be soooo much quicker to be able to do this in one entry.

#14 Nettie

Nettie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1661 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:37 AM

I would still like to have the option of including all members of the family in one entry. I have to input a lot of census entries and include a note to each one so that I can find the original image on my computer easily. It would be soooo much quicker to be able to do this in one entry.


Data Entry is time consuming but worth being careful with each data entry.:) Less cleanup this way......

For years working with FO and RM have used census fact individual. I set up one persons census fact and memorize [alt m] the source citation with all the information added. Then go to each person in same census record, [if too much in the detail section especially if printing in the narrative report, I change the information when I am in the persons record.]
  • add Census fact,
  • date,
  • place,
  • desc field with needed information. [example: with his parents age 5 born Germany] add relationship for years that it exists on the census record.
  • Do a copy feature control + c to the clip board of the information in the desc field.
  • Click save/ alt v
  • go to Source Citation;
  • alt p [puts the citation in the box]
  • open the file to details text and delete what is not needed. Especially if I have the whole family listed in the record.
  • alt o.as many times needed to get to the next person.
Repeat in the next persons data screen
  • Census fact
  • date tab to
  • place tab to
  • in desc field control V
  • change age and born as needed
  • Click Save or alt v
  • In Source Citation
  • do an alt p
  • open the file to details text and delete what is not needed
  • alt o.
Next person
most of this is done with out the mouse, goes quickly.
Have not tried Alfred's method yet but it could work faster.
For 10 people in the census record was done in less then 10 minutes. :)
would rather do it this way so I have all the data entry the way I want it.
Any auto generated copy and paste can produce errors or in the wrong persons file and has happened to me. :( More clean up time.
This is my quick way of doing census facts. :)

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#15 Renee Zamora

Renee Zamora

    Advanced Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPip
  • 8526 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:55 AM

I would still like to have the option of including all members of the family in one entry. I have to input a lot of census entries and include a note to each one so that I can find the original image on my computer easily. It would be soooo much quicker to be able to do this in one entry.

I haven't added this in the tracking system. I see a real problem with automating this. Not every child in a family could be born yet in a given census year. It might cause more troubles than it is worth.
Renee
RootsMagic

#16 Nettie

Nettie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1661 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:07 AM

I haven't added this in the tracking system. I see a real problem with automating this. Not every child in a family could be born yet in a given census year. It might cause more troubles than it is worth.


Thanks Renee :)

I see memorizing a fact census with all the information and being able to paste it rather then auto. Like we had it in FO...:)

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#17 Renee Zamora

Renee Zamora

    Advanced Member

  • Admin
  • PipPipPip
  • 8526 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

Thanks Renee :)

I see memorizing a fact census with all the information and being able to paste it rather then auto. Like we had it in FO...:)

Confirming we do have memorizing and pasting a fact in our tracking system.
Renee
RootsMagic