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Reports displaying notes and all fields


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#1 DonnaT

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

I've noticed a few odd things that I would hope would be an easy fix. When doing a narrative report the notes for the "family census" facts that are shared are not listed, but the notes are listed for a "census" fact. The narrative reports states all types of census facts appearances, but it doesn't print the notes for all the facts...just the notes for the plain "census" fact. If they are shared, the notes do not appear in the narrative nor the individual summary report.

Personally, if I generate a narrative report, my wish list would be to see everything that I have input (notes, descriptons, etc) on the family members and that all those facts that are shared are also printed with the shared person/people. When I generate an individual summary, I'd like to see everything that I've input plus details of all census (and family census) records under the notes in date order and, in the case of shared facts, for those notes, descriptions, etc being carried to the person that I'm generating the report for (although spouses sharing the fact seem to work okay)

For example, one person I have is on family census records as a child (shared as "named"), then as an adult (under the principal person and named) for his family census, then under just "census" (not family census, just census) when he is older and a widower. The individual summary report places the 1900 census notes(when he is a widower) first....before all the marriage notes and family census notes, then, like I stated in my first paragraph, the census records (notes) when he is a child (under his father's household) are not carried over the notes area. I would hope that, even if someone is not the principal person on a family census, that the notes would be carried to all the "named" people (or other "roles").

Here is an example of what I'm seeing:

1850 family census (under his father's household, but he has a "named" role and is sharing the fact)
NAR REPORT - mentions him as appearing, but no notes carried through to him
IND SUMM REPORT - has him in the individual facts area under "named" (would loved it to say census-named), but no notes carried through to him

1860, 1870, 1880 family census (under his own household, I have him listed as the principal,and under "named" in the 'sharing the fact')
NAR REPORT - mentions him as appearing, but no notes carried though to him even though he is listed as the principal and a "named" role
IND SUMM REPORT - has him in the individual facts area under "named", and notes carried though for him (because he is the principal role too)

1900 census (since he is widowed, I placed him under the fact "census" instead of "fam census")
NAR REPORT - mentions him as appearing AND shows the notes
IND SUMM REPORT - mentions him in the individual facts area under "census" and lists the notes (prior to things like his marriage. I even have another case where the death notes of an individual appear prior to all other notes (hence the question about notes being placed in date order)


On another (smaller note), I notied that on the individual report, the occupation name (description field) does not show for an occupation and would love to see that printing out.


I hope that my wish list and examples are clear....

Thank you for your time and your great software (I really DO love it!!!!)

#2 Nettie

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

Some of us like me, do not use the shared facts for the reasons you are stating. We started in FO with each individual with a census fact. :) Only census fact that is a true share is census family. :) Maybe more work, which it isn't for me, and I like the fact that they do print in all reports. :)

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#3 Laura

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

For an Individual fact, Census, the note for the Principal printed in the narrative report is the note entered for the fact on the Edit person screen.

For a family fact, Census (family), the note printed is the note entered for the fact on the Edit person screen. It is printed after the marriage fact data for the couple. Using a family fact links the fact to both records for the couple. It is not necessary to add the spouse as a Shared person. If you want the fact shared with, say the children, then share the fact with the children.

Notes for the Sharees are printed from the notes added to the Sharee on the Edit shared event screen accessed by editing a Sharee on the People who share this fact screen.

The easiest way to see this is to create a new database to "Play" in.

Add 3 new person's to the new database, a husband, wife, and child. Enter marriage data for the marriage.

Add Census to the husband. In the note for the fact put, This is the Principal note for the Census fact.

Share the Census fact with the spouse and child. In the Note box for each Sharee, enter This is a Sharee note for the Census fact.

Do the same using the Census (family) fact except replace Census with Census {family} in the notes.

As for the Occupation fact, check the default fact sentence at Lists, Fact type list. Make sure Description is enabled and [desc] is in the fact sentence template. If you customize a sentence on the Edit person screen, make sure [desc[ is in that sentence template.

#4 Alfred

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:03 PM

The notes for family facts show up in the family part of the narrative reports.
Notes for individual facts show up in the individual part of the narrative reports.

The main note for any shared fact is only displayed with the primary person,(or family) there is a place to enter a note for individual sharee's when you add them or when you later edit the sharer's facts sharing persons. This individual sharee's note does show up in their part of the narrative and in the Individual Summary.

Do you really want the sharer's note to be repeated for each sharing individual?

---
Hmmmm, My description field for occupation shows up in the Individual Summary report.

===== HAY! Laura, =====
Slow down, I am getting old and always coming in second. :D
Alfred

#5 Laura

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:24 PM

===== HAY! Laura, =====
Slow down, I am getting old and always coming in second. :D


Hi Alfred,

It just seems that way! :)

I'm trying to remember to check to see if someone has posted while I am typing a post. Trying is the operative word here. ;)

You have actually beaten me several times, and I didn't post.

#6 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

The notes for family facts show up in the family part of the narrative reports.
Notes for individual facts show up in the individual part of the narrative reports.

The main note for any shared fact is only displayed with the primary person,(or family) there is a place to enter a note for individual sharee's when you add them or when you later edit the sharer's facts sharing persons. This individual sharee's note does show up in their part of the narrative and in the Individual Summary.

For these and other reasons, I don't use shared facts, and the only family facts I use are marriage and divorce (and variations thereof).

In the case of family facts, I understand why they are called family facts but it has always seemed to me that they might better be called spouse facts. They really don't apply to the entire family. They really just apply to the spouses. For example, enter a family census fact for John Doe and his wife Jane that includes their son Samuel in the family census fact note, and start a narrative report with Samuel. There will be nary a trace of that census fact in Samuel's report.

Similarly, for shared facts I always want the sharee's note to be different than the original note. RM5 supports doing so, but by the time I have gone in and changed all the sharee's notes, I might as well have used real facts in the first place instead of shared facts. Plus, shared facts are not compatible with third party software to which I might export a GEDCOM. So I only use real facts, not shared facts, and in the case of the census, I give every individual their own separate individual census fact and note for every census in which they appear.

I might use shared facts if I could export them in GEDCOM as real facts, or maybe if after entering them I could do a one click operation that would convert all the shared facts in my database to real facts. But I can't imagine ever using things like the family census fact. Obviously, other users find success with family census facts and with shared facts. So your mileage may vary.

Having said all that, I like the way census sentences look as shared facts. So I'm going to the extra trouble of adjusting the sentence template for each individual census fact to look a great deal like the way shared census sentences look. I'll always steal a good idea anywhere I can find one. :)

Jerry

#7 Laura

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:56 PM

I like having the best of both ways, so I am going to the extra work of using two facts for the same census.

I am saving the census fact to each individual and not sharing it. This fact is set to not print in a Narrative report on the Lists, Fact type list and to print for a Family Group sheet. I do have the description enabled and enter the head of household into the description for the fact linked to the other family members.

I changed my default sentence to print the description if present.

[person:first]<?[Desc]| is listed in the household of [desc]| is listed [PlaceDetails] [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>.

I also have an Individual user defined fact, ! Shared Census, that I link to the Principal [head of household] and then share with other family members. This fact is marked to print in a Narrative report and not print in a Family Group Sheet. If I am exporting a gedcom for use in another genealogy program, I unmark the gedcom selection.

I have all the advantages of using the roles switches and can put abbreviated notes in the Sharree's notes to be included in the Role sentence when the role sentence does not end with a comma.

For instance, a Sharee note of: as Della Kent, wife, F, age 55, married, did not attend school, completed 4 school grades, born AR, residence in 1935 in same place, worked in home, no income would print at the end of the fact sentence for the Role.

I figure the extra work of adding the extra fact is offset by the work of customizing the sentence for each person with an individual census fact. It is all subjective from one user to another, I guess.

I get another benefit from using the two facts. If I want a report for just heads of households, I can make the report on the ! Shared Census fact.

#8 Mike M. 77

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:05 AM

After going back and forth on this several times, for much the same reasons stated by c24m48 above, I decided to avoid using shared facts in almost all situations. However, I have continued using them to denote, for example, a relative living with another relative temporarily, which is a common situation in immigrant families and for which I use a special "lived with" role. I like the way it prints in reports and also the way it looks on the Person Edit screen. I decide to switch back, though, I'd like to be able to find shared facts all at once, in a report. Please correct me if I'm missing something, but there seems to be no way to search easily for shared facts right now.

Mike M.

#9 Laura

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:07 PM

Please correct me if I'm missing something, but there seems to be no way to search easily for shared facts right now.
Mike M.


There is no easy way right now. And what you can do depends on how you have entered data in your database.

If you have a source linked to the shared fact, you can print a source list report and save the report to a text file and search for each role in a word processor.

For censuses, if you transcribe the census record into the Census note, you could search the notes for keywords, such as nephew, neice, cousin, lodger, boarder, etc. This will search the note for the Principal and would give you the principal's name not the Sharee's name. For other facts, there might be other keywords you could use.

#10 TomH

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:05 PM

A SQLite query could list shared facts. There are a few already on the wiki that do but also show all facts. Would require slight mods to filter for just shared facts.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#11 DonnaT

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:26 AM

Wow...

Thank you to everyone for posting suggestions to the "problems" I am experiencing.

I've been using the family census to share a census with a husband, wife, and children. I was hopeful that, by posting this, it would point out the "added step" of having to copy the original note into the note field under the shared button (which, by the way, I had not tried and will be trying that today...thanks for that suggestion!!!).

As for labeling a wife as "name" under the shared 'family census'-I did that because then it listed the census under her reports. I not only got it listed, but the notes carried over to her on the ind.report and the sum.report printed everything properly too.

The only time I've had to use "census" as a stand alone was when I had the widowed person alone in his own household.

I just don't understand why there isn't an option to have the notes shared with the facts when you share the facts. Sure, you can have the extra notes section or even a box to click "share these notes with the people that share the facts". Seems to me that it would be an easy fix and stop the duplication of notes in the program. This genealogy program is really great, why not work out little things like this (okay, I dont program, so maybe its not a little thing...). I'm just one of those OVERLY logical people. For example....it still makes NO sense that the 1900 census notes printed ("census"), then marriage notes from 1855, then the census from 1860, 1870, and 1880 ("census fam"). Why aren't the notes in date order on the ind. summ? It just seems odd - almost like its printing in date order BUT only after if prints in a predetermined fact order. Shouldn't notes be in a logical date order...showing the progression of ones life as it happened? Okay, okay, no Star Trek comments from some of you :D Yes, I need things to be "logical".

I will say this.....I am honored at all the suggestions and helpful comments. I didn't expect all the ideas and helpful suggestions. I'd still like to see this program "tweeked" so that we didn't have to duplicate notes and facts all over the place. Than again, maybe I'm using the notes field for census completely wrong. I'm using it to transcribe the census. I do that so that my reports show who was hitting the census, where they were, and the others with them. For me, this is not only helpful to see the big picture, but a detail that like to see when printing out the reports. I then use the reports to give to my family members. I guess I like all the facts to show so that they can get the entire picture, no matter who they want the report on. I think a report with notes that go in date order, birth notes, each census or event (even when they are children on their parents census) is what the notes field on the ind. summary sounds like that was the intent when it was created.

Thanks again, I'm going to fiddle with some of the suggestions and see what happens. Meanwhile, I still have high hopes and fingers crossed that the next update that comes up for V5 will print out everything for me.... :)

#12 DonnaT

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:28 AM

Some of us like me, do not use the shared facts for the reasons you are stating. We started in FO with each individual with a census fact. :) Only census fact that is a true share is census family. :) Maybe more work, which it isn't for me, and I like the fact that they do print in all reports. :)



Okay...I probably need more coffee and will kick myself for asking this, but what is "FO"?

#13 DonnaT

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:37 AM

As for the Occupation fact, check the default fact sentence at Lists, Fact type list. Make sure Description is enabled and [desc] is in the fact sentence template. If you customize a sentence on the Edit person screen, make sure [desc[ is in that sentence template.




Good Gravy...I hate to admit this...but I found the problem. It was my error on the occupation problem...I failed to put it in the desc field. Can anyone say "Stttttupid". Ugh. I can't believe I did that. :blink:

#14 DonnaT

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:50 AM

For these and other reasons, I don't use shared facts, and the only family facts I use are marriage and divorce (and variations thereof).

In the case of family facts, I understand why they are called family facts but it has always seemed to me that they might better be called spouse facts. They really don't apply to the entire family. They really just apply to the spouses. For example, enter a family census fact for John Doe and his wife Jane that includes their son Samuel in the family census fact note, and start a narrative report with Samuel. There will be nary a trace of that census fact in Samuel's report.

Similarly, for shared facts I always want the sharee's note to be different than the original note. RM5 supports doing so, but by the time I have gone in and changed all the sharee's notes, I might as well have used real facts in the first place instead of shared facts. Plus, shared facts are not compatible with third party software to which I might export a GEDCOM. So I only use real facts, not shared facts, and in the case of the census, I give every individual their own separate individual census fact and note for every census in which they appear.

I might use shared facts if I could export them in GEDCOM as real facts, or maybe if after entering them I could do a one click operation that would convert all the shared facts in my database to real facts. But I can't imagine ever using things like the family census fact. Obviously, other users find success with family census facts and with shared facts. So your mileage may vary.

Having said all that, I like the way census sentences look as shared facts. So I'm going to the extra trouble of adjusting the sentence template for each individual census fact to look a great deal like the way shared census sentences look. I'll always steal a good idea anywhere I can find one. :)

Jerry



Jerry,
Thank you for your example of John and Jane Doe and son Samuel. That's EXACTLY what I was trying to get at when I posted my first posting and, like you explained, putting another individual census fact seems to be the way around it, but it seems like a LOT of work. Especially since it seems that I've got to go back through everyone...and I've gone out to 6 generations on the lines (plus all descendents) and some lines as far back as 10 lines. Oh well, time to stop whining and start duplicating..... Thank you though Jerry for giving my problem a clear example.
-Donna

#15 DonnaT

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:01 AM

I also have an Individual user defined fact, ! Shared Census, that I link to the Principal [head of household] and then share with other family members. This fact is marked to print in a Narrative report and not print in a Family Group Sheet. If I am exporting a gedcom for use in another genealogy program, I unmark the gedcom selection.

I have all the advantages of using the roles switches and can put abbreviated notes in the Sharree's notes to be included in the Role sentence when the role sentence does not end with a comma.

For instance, a Sharee note of: as Della Kent, wife, F, age 55, married, did not attend school, completed 4 school grades, born AR, residence in 1935 in same place, worked in home, no income would print at the end of the fact sentence for the Role.

I figure the extra work of adding the extra fact is offset by the work of customizing the sentence for each person with an individual census fact. It is all subjective from one user to another, I guess.

I get another benefit from using the two facts. If I want a report for just heads of households, I can make the report on the ! Shared Census fact.



Laura,

This shared census that you created as an individual fact type....
Does it allow you to then share the notes with all the sharee(s)? And if so, then would it print on all of their ind. repprt under the notes? It sounds interesting.

-Donna

#16 A Descendant

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:31 AM

I am saving the census fact to each individual and not sharing it. This fact is set to not print in a Narrative report on the Lists, Fact type list and to print for a Family Group sheet. I do have the description enabled and enter the head of household into the description for the fact linked to the other family members.

I changed my default sentence to print the description if present.

[person:first]<?[Desc]| is listed in the household of [desc]| is listed [PlaceDetails] [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>.

I also have an Individual user defined fact, ! Shared Census, that I link to the Principal [head of household] and then share with other family members. This fact is marked to print in a Narrative report and not print in a Family Group Sheet. If I am exporting a gedcom for use in another genealogy program, I unmark the gedcom selection.

I have all the advantages of using the roles switches and can put abbreviated notes in the Sharree's notes to be included in the Role sentence when the role sentence does not end with a comma.


I'm also interested in this custom fact. How does it differ from the individual Census fact?

So, if I understand right, your individual fact prints only in the Family Group Sheet and shows the person in the household of whomever you put in the description field. So you would also have the advantage of putting the head of household as its shown in that census, not just as the default name of the person in the program.
Then the shared fact is used in a narrative report only and is printed with notes, but it would show the head of household as the default name of the [principal]?

#17 Romer

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

FO stands for Family Origins, the precursor to RootsMagic.

#18 Laura

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

Laura,

This shared census that you created as an individual fact type....
Does it allow you to then share the notes with all the sharee(s)? And if so, then would it print on all of their ind. repprt under the notes? It sounds interesting.

-Donna


No, it is a shared fact so only the Sharree's notes entered from the Edit shared event screen at People who share this fact print in a Narrative report for the Sharree as has already been explained.

For shared spouse:
Role is Spouse
Default sentence template for role: [Thisperson] was listed in the household of [ThisPerson:HisHer] husband, [person:given:last],< [Place]> in the< [Date:Year]> census

[Note: there is no comma at the end of the default sentence.]

Sharee's note: as Mary E. Smith, wife, F, white, age 37, b. Arkansas.

[Note: Sharee's note ends with a comma and extra returns are added if desired for line spacing after the note in the Narrative report]

In the Narrative report this sentence would print with her maiden name as:

Mary E. Jones was listed in the household of her husband, Thomas Smith, in the 1930 census as Mary E. Smith, wife, F, white, age 37, b. Arkansas.

I can customize the Sharee's sentence on the Edit person screen even further if I want to.

Since I copy and paste the full transcription into the source detail text, I can look at the full transcription on the Citation Manager also if I want to. This gives me the benefit of choosing whether to print or not print notes for the Narrative report and still have the transcription printed in the source.

I created the ! Shared census user defined fact so I could take advantage of the extra switches available using roles and not having the Principal note repeated over and over for every Sharee in a Narrative report.

Since I copy and paste the full transcription into the source detail text, I can look at the full transcription on the Citation Manager also if I want to. This also gives me the benefit of choosing whether to print or not print notes for the Narrative report and still have the transcription printed in the source.

I would not want the program to be changed to force the Principal note to be repeated for the Sharee. An option would be OK as long as I could set it to my choice and forget it.

#19 DonnaT

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:51 PM

I would not want the program to be changed to force the Principal note to be repeated for the Sharee. An option would be OK as long as I could set it to my choice and forget it.




First of all Laura, thank you for explaining the way that you use your RM when it comes to the census reports. It was enlightening and full of wonderful ideas! I have to agree that I wouldn't want the program CHANGED, but just to have a checkbox OPTION for the principal note to be used with all the sharees would be wonderful. It would be horrible to completely change something and mess up data that's already been worked on in everyone's computer. I just think and option would be beneficial, but maybe I need to be more creative in using the program.

I guess I should just abandon my wish and figure out if I can create a custom report that will basically take the data in everyone's edit screen and spit it out in chronological order, including a notes section and the citations (like the ind report) or include all notes in a narr. report format. I hate to admit it, but at this point, I'm still bogged down with adding the data and citations that I've collected for years (prior to having a genealogy program) and haven't even had time to figure out if a report like that is possible.....

#20 Laura

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

I'm also interested in this custom fact. How does it differ from the individual Census fact?

So, if I understand right, your individual fact prints only in the Family Group Sheet and shows the person in the household of whomever you put in the description field. So you would also have the advantage of putting the head of household as its shown in that census, not just as the default name of the person in the program.
Then the shared fact is used in a narrative report only and is printed with notes, but it would show the head of household as the default name of the [principal]?


Yes, whatever is entered into the description field is printed before the place on the Family Group Sheet. For a Census fact which is not shared, this could be the Principal or if the actual head of household is not in your database, it could be that head of household's name.

I just changed my default Census fact sentence to:

[person:first] is listed<?[Desc]| in the household of [desc]>< [PlaceDetails] [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>.

This will print Mary is listed. Then if there is an entry in the description field, it will print in the household of [desc] and then rest of the sentence, place details, place and date.

Mary is listed in the household of James Smith.

If there is no entry in the description field, it will print Mary is listed and then print the rest of the sentence, place .details, place and date.

In a shared fact on the Narrative report, the Principal's default sentence above will print the same way.

For a role sentence, [Thisperson] is the Sharee and [Person] is the Principal. Description could be a head of household that is not in the database.

Child role:

[Thisperson] is listed in the household of<?[Desc]| [desc]| [thisperson:hisher] father, [person],>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>

Entering a name in the description will print the first part of the sentence before the |.

If you want the Principal [Person] printed, then you would not enter a name in the description.

Of course, if the head of household is not the father but the mother, grandparent, uncle, etc., you would customize that part of the sentence.

On those more rare occasions where you wanted both in a sentence something like, Tom Smith is listed with his father, James Smith, in the household of William Jones, you could customize the sentence on the Edit person screen. Or you might want to use this sentence as your default sentence.

[Thisperson] is listed with [thisperson:hisher] father, [person]<?[Desc]| in the household of [desc]>< [PlaceDetails]>< [Place]>< on the [Date:year] census>

I prefer using the Census fact which is not shared in the Family Group Sheet as my default as I never know who will be the focus of the FGS. If Thomas Smith is the focus but James Smith, his father, is the Principal of the shared facts, only the note I have entered for Thomas Smith as a Sharee will print in the FGS. In my case, that would be something like, as Tom Smith, son, age 7, white, single, b. Arkansas. That isn't very informative when sharing a FGS with another person.