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Full vs Short Footnotes in Narrative Report


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#1 Norm Lewis

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

Is there anyway I can force RM 5 to use only the full (long) source citation in a narrative report? The way RM is using the short note on a second reference is giving me quite a few problems.

1) I generally export my narratives to word for additional editing. RM use the long footnote in the first instance, and the short note subsequent references. When I move text around, I have ended up in some cases where the short not now preceeds the full citation note, so it is a bit meaningless.

2) With some source types, such as newspaper online images, here is the problem tat occurs (not well though out source types by the way). Let's say I have two newspapers, Paper 1 and Paper 2. And in one report I have four obituaries, two from Paper 1 and two from Paper 2.

Person 1 has an obituary in Paper 1, and the footnote has the entire full citation.
Person 2 has an obituary in Paper 2, and the footnote has the entire full citation.
Person 3 has an obituary in Paper 1, and all I get is "Obituary", p. 3.
Person 4 has an obituary in Paper 2, and all Ig et is "Obituary", p. 5.

I have no way to know what paper person 3 and 4's obituaries came from. THe short note option only gives the article title and the page number.

I have just used obituaries as an exmple. Sometimes the second reference is some other news story with a title. But you have no indication what paper it is from. Again, poor source design. I would have expected the built in sources to be better though out.

I would be happy with just a switch to tell RM to not use the short note option.

Any ideas?

#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:33 AM

Confirming enhancement request added to tracking system for option to use only the full (long) source citation in a narrative report.
Renee
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#3 TomH

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:36 PM

Another argument against using the built-in source templates which you cannot 'fix'. Better to use copies which are editable so that you can design it to work right. And another argument in favour of Free Form or !MyFreeForm3.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#4 APerson

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:12 AM

Is there anyway I can force RM 5 to use only the full (long) source citation in a narrative report? The way RM is using the short note on a second reference is giving me quite a few problems.

1) I generally export my narratives to word for additional editing. RM use the long footnote in the first instance, and the short note subsequent references. When I move text around, I have ended up in some cases where the short not now preceeds the full citation note, so it is a bit meaningless.

2) With some source types, such as newspaper online images, here is the problem tat occurs (not well though out source types by the way). Let's say I have two newspapers, Paper 1 and Paper 2. And in one report I have four obituaries, two from Paper 1 and two from Paper 2.

Person 1 has an obituary in Paper 1, and the footnote has the entire full citation.
Person 2 has an obituary in Paper 2, and the footnote has the entire full citation.
Person 3 has an obituary in Paper 1, and all I get is "Obituary", p. 3.
Person 4 has an obituary in Paper 2, and all Ig et is "Obituary", p. 5.

I have no way to know what paper person 3 and 4's obituaries came from. THe short note option only gives the article title and the page number.

I have just used obituaries as an exmple. Sometimes the second reference is some other news story with a title. But you have no indication what paper it is from. Again, poor source design. I would have expected the built in sources to be better though out.

I would be happy with just a switch to tell RM to not use the short note option.

Any ideas?




Norm,

This has been a long standing problem. The situation is that there are simply too many different types of "footnotes", "references", "citations", or other terms that one wants to call them. The problem would be much better solved by citing a source only ONE TIME in a report and having a simple way to find that citation. Most books, research papers, articles, etc. usually only print citations at the end of a chapter or end of a book. It would be far more logical genealogical programs to do this than to have to continually worry about the differences between "footnotes", "short footnotes", and "bibliographies". There are different methods to accomplish this - for example, some citation systems cite sources within the text by citing the author(s) name and the year of publication while others use assign a number, that is indicated as a superscript next to the item being cited. I'm sure there are other methods too.

#5 TomH

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:49 PM

You have the choice in RM of printing citations as footnotes, as you have been doing with undesired consequences, or having them print as endnotes, at the end of the report. In the case of endnotes, a unique citation should only print once, the same way as the full Footnote, so that there is no use of the Short Footnote, if you check the Option "Reuse endnote numbers where possible".

If endnotes is not a satisfactory solution to your problem, another approach would be to replace the Short Footnote sentence template with the Footnote sentence template so that the outputs are identical. This cannot be done for built-in source templates from within the RootsMagic software. Using SQLite tools outside RM, the sources could be converted to use editable copies of the built-in source templates and these could be 'fixed' to have identical full and short footnote sentence templates using RM or, more speedily, by using an additional SQLite query. For more information on such conversions, visit Source Templates.

Tom user of RM7550 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> RMtrix-tiny.png app, a bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#6 Norm Lewis

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:45 PM

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. While the best answer for me is to have an option to set RM to use only the full citation in the long term, there may be some short term workaround in your suggestions.

Norm

#7 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:06 PM

Here's one more suggestion but one that's probably not applicable to most people. I use only the built-in Free Form source template, and I always make the long footnote and the short foot identical. I print only end notes, never foot notes or a bibliography. Doing it this way, I'm very pleased with the look of my end notes in a report.

Jerry

#8 Laura

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:34 PM

Jerry, I also use Free Form sources and enter the short footnote and Bibliography as I want them to read in reports. I do sometimes print a Bibliography as it is a quick synopsis of which master sources are printed in that report.

For those using source templates, they could copy the program defined source template and then change how the short footnote reads in the copy and use the resulting user defined template instead of the program defined template.