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Arrangement of Family Facts in the Family Group Sheet Report


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#21 Romer

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:20 PM

Lee, I meant to include it earlier, but would you mind posting a representative family group sheet based on your data entry methodology? Feel free to privatize the names if you wish. I'm having a bit of a hard time envisioning how it might turn out in your case, but very curious how it looks.

#22 leeirons

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:26 PM

Lee, I meant to include it earlier, but would you mind posting a representative family group sheet based on your data entry methodology? Feel free to privatize the names if you wish. I'm having a bit of a hard time envisioning how it might turn out in your case, but very curious how it looks.

I would be glad to post what it looks like. I just imported my family file from Legacy 7.5, so I am still doing some cleanup. Give me a few hours (hopefully less than that), and I will post a Family Group Sheet. How would I go about posting it?

#23 Laura

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:35 PM

Let me present a case for why you might want to have a marriage fact when there is no know husband of a family. You could use a marriage family fact to identify that there are no know sources of who the husband was. Call it a null fact. In the note asociated with the fact, you could identify all of the repositories and sources you have already searched through.


There are many ways to enter that information into the database without creating a null fact. Personally, I don't add facts that I have no data for in my database unless it is a user defined fact that I am using to track something in the database. And I don't link a source that doesn't have the data to support the fact.

To track research I used the To Do list and with the new Research log I will be using it also. The To Do list will have "I need to look for this event" and the research log will contain what source I used to try to find the data and whether it was found or not.

And/or put that information in the known person's notes.

And/or create a individual user defined fact and link it into the known person's record.

Or add a new person into the database, possibly given and surnames both Unknown. Then link this person as the spouse.

If I have children with a surname and don't know the father, I add a new person, surname Smith, prefix Mr. If the children have different surnames, I add new person as a father for each surname.

I also have a user defined fact for my own use which can or cannot be marked private, ! Spouse(s)with the description field enabled.

If I don't have an unknown spouse entered into the database, I enter [Not known] in the description.

If the person had one known spouse, I put the spouses name in the description.

If a female had more than one spouse, I put it like this, (1) Mark Jones (2) Mr. Smith {3} [Not Known]

If a male had more than one spouse, I would have, (1) Jane Doe (2) Mary (Unknown). (Unknown) means I don't have a maiden name.

Any needed notes or sources can be added to the ! Spouse fact.

#24 leeirons

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:43 PM

There are many ways to enter that information into the database without creating a null fact.

Certainly there are many ways to proverbially skin the proverbial cat. The methods you listed above are certainly workable. I like the "research notes" approach. I don't like creating records of spouses with unknown names by putting "unknown" in the name space. I have seen such names show up in FamilySearch. :rolleyes: It is true that the method I mentioned would not work for a second unknown spouse, because when the spouse list comes up, if there is at least one spouse already entered, the blank option is not available.

To bring the thread back on point, what I would like to see is the family facts moved to be between the father and mother on the Family Group Record report, because when there is no father yet added to the pedigree, the family facts that are linked to the existing mother will not show up on the Family Group Record report. Even when there is both a father and mother in the pedigree, I still would like the family facts to be listed between the Father and Mother, because there is no way to differentiate between a father's individual facts and the family facts when the family facts are listed under the father.

#25 Romer

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:07 PM

Lee, depending on how long the FGS turns out to be, you may be able to just copy and paste it into a post here in this thread. Not sure how the formatting will turn out for the sake of readability, however.

#26 Alfred

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 04:05 PM

All you want is to have the family facts split from the personal facts.
Maybe a FAMILY heading after the father facts and before the family facts.
Or, maybe even better, to move them and the new heading below the Mother facts.

Why this thread got confused and so long is beyond my comprehension. :unsure:
Alfred

#27 Laura

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 04:48 PM

There is one instance where family facts will print for an unknown father in a FGS. You can delete a person but any family facts will be still linked to the remaining spouse.

The existing persons which is in the database have linked family fact(s), Marriage, Divorce, etc.

Delete the father from the database but do not delete the linked family fact(s) from the mother.

The FGS will show no individual information for the father but will have the family fact(s) information. If there are notes and/or sources they are given on the FGS. The Date and Place can be left blank.

If you delete the mother and there are linked family fact(s), the father will have the family facts in his section and the mother will have no other data in her section.

So add a temporary father, link the Family facts, and then delete the temporary father.

You could even enable the description field for the family facts and enter something like "The father is unknown and there is no marriage data" and it will print on the FGS.

If I ever saw this situation in a FGS, I would immediately go to the existing person and add any source to the Research log as not found and make a To Do that I need to find out who the husband or wife of the person was.

The I would delete those Family facts from the existing person.

#28 leeirons

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:04 PM

There is one instance where family facts will print for an unknown father in a FGS. You can delete a person but any family facts will be still linked to the remaining spouse.

The existing persons which is in the database have linked family fact(s), Marriage, Divorce, etc.

Delete the father from the database but do not delete the linked family fact(s) from the mother.

The FGS will show no individual information for the father but will have the family fact(s) information. If there are notes and/or sources they are given on the FGS. The Date and Place can be left blank.

If you delete the mother and there are linked family fact(s), the father will have the family facts in his section and the mother will have no other data in her section.

So add a temporary father, link the Family facts, and then delete the temporary father.

You could even enable the description field for the family facts and enter something like "The father is unknown and there is no marriage data" and it will print on the FGS.

If I ever saw this situation in a FGS, I would immediately go to the existing person and add any source to the Research log as not found and make a To Do that I need to find out who the husband or wife of the person was.

The I would delete those Family facts from the existing person.

Very interesting, though the original point of the thread, as Alfred pointed out, was to have the family facts separated from the father in a separate section either between the father and nother or after the mother. A simple, logical request that would not cause anyone else any problems if implemented. It is probably easy to program, also. Sounds like a winner. :)

Romer asked that I provide an example of a family group sheet with the special family facts that I use. I have just finished cleaning up one family in my family file that I imported from Legacy Family Tree 7.5. LFT does not have shared fact capability, so my method in LFT required me to copy and paste facts that are common among family members separately to each person record and to the marriage record. Thus, when the data imported from LFT, considering that RM5 does not have a merge function to merge such facts into shared facts (another wish list item I have put in), all of the facts came in still separated. So it takes me quite awhile to manually rework my data using RM5 shared facts. Anyway, here is an example of a family group sheet using proximity and occasion facts with source citations, analysis, and conclusions on how the evidence proves the relationships. I did a short family with just a handful of facts. Add more children abd more family facts, and this becomes very effective, expecially with the analysis notes. It would also become readily apparent wny having the family facts listed separate from the father would be helpful. I have italicized the family facts under the father, so you can tell the difference between them and the individual facts and father's role-references-to-family-facts that are listed under the father. I also had to do some reformatting to make it look clean on this page.

--------------------

Father Lewis Randolph IRONS-4551

Birth 1857
Ocean, New Jersey, United States

Child Resident 1860
Eden IRONS-283 and Sarah Jane SHINN-468; Household of Irons, Eden, 1860; Brick, Ocean, New Jersey, United States2

Child Resident 1870
Eden IRONS-283 and Sarah Jane SHINN-468; Household of Irons, Eden, 1870; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States3

Groom 1877
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Child Not Accounted With Family 1880
Eden IRONS-283 and Sarah Jane SHINN-468; Household of Irons, Eden, 1880; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States5

Husband 1880
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Household of Irons, Lewis Randolph, 1880; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Husband's Parents
Eden Irons and Sarah Jane Irons are the parents of the Lewis Randolph Irons who married Anna Chamberlain

Occasion 1877
Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Proximity 1880
Household of Irons, Lewis Randolph, 1880; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Father Eden IRONS-283 (1829- )
Mother Sarah Jane SHINN-468 (1831- )

Mother Anna CHAMBERLAIN-801

Birth 1855
Ocean, New Jersey, United States

Bride 1877
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Wife 1880
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Household of Irons, Lewis Randolph, 1880; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Father
Mother

Children

F Nellie IRONS-4621

Birth 1879
Ocean, New Jersey, United States

Daughter 1880
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Household of Irons, Lewis Randolph, 1880; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Family Sources1
________________________________________________________

FAMILY NOTES
Husband's Parents:
Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons who would be age 23 in 1880, is no longer present in their household in 1880 in Ocean County, New Jersey. The household of Randolph Irons and Annie Irons first appears in the New Jersey Federal Census in 1880, after a Randolph Irons and Annie Chamberlain were married in 1877 in Ocean County, New Jersey. Hook (1955) identifies the son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons as Lewis Randolph Irons. There is no other Lewis Irons or Randolph Irons around the age of 23 in the 1880 census in New Jersey. Thus, Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons is the same person as the Randolph Irons who married Annie Chamberlain and has a household with her (Annie Irons) in 1880.
Occasion (1877): Randolph Irons is married to Anna Chamberlain.
Proximity (1880): Randolph Irons, age 22, is married and residing with Annie Irons, age 25, with the following children also in residence: Nellie Irons, daughter, age 1. Everyone and everyone's parents were born in New Jersey.
General: This family is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this family is comprised of: Lewis Randolph Irons (father, born about 1857), Anna Chamberlain (mother, born about 1855), and Nellie Irons (daughter, born about 1879). No research has been done on this family beyond 1880.

FATHER NOTES: Lewis Randolph IRONS-455
Child Resident (1860): Detailed Source Information: Lewis R. Irons, age 3, born in New Jersey.
Child Resident (1870): Detailed Source Information: Lewis R. Irons, age 13, born in New Jersey.
Groom (1877): Detailed Source Information: Randolph Irons gets married, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey.
Child Not Accounted With Family (1880): Detailed Source Information: Lewis R. Irons not recorded with the parents in the 1880 census.
Look for Match: Lewis R. Irons, would be 22 or 23.
Connection: See Randolph Irons.
Husband (1880): Detailed Source Information: Randolph Irons, age 22, wheelwright, born in New Jersey.
Connection: Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons.
General: This individual is recorded in Hook (1955) as follows. Lewis Randolph Irons, born 1857, listed as a son of Eden Irons and Sarah Jane Shinn. No information is in the book about his death date.
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this individual is Lewis Randolph Irons who was born about 1857, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey, where he lived most of his life through 1880. No research has been done on this individual beyond 1880.

MOTHER NOTES: Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80
Bride (1877): Detailed Source Information: Anna Chamberlain gets married, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey.
Wife (1880): Detailed Source Information: Annie Irons, age 25, keeping house, born in New Jersey.
General: This individual is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this individual is Anna Chamberlain who was born about 1855, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey, where she lived most of her life through 1880. No research has been done on this individual beyond 1880.

CHILD NOTES: Nellie IRONS-462
Daughter (1880): Detailed Source Information: Nellie Irons, age 1, born in New Jersey.
General: This individual is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this individual is Nellie Irons who was born about 1879, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey, where she lived most of her life through 1880. No research has been done on this individual beyond 1880.

END NOTES:
1. James W. Hook, Smith, Grant and Irons Families of New Jersey's Shore Counties.
2. 1860 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Brick, Ocean, NJ, pg. 36, dwell. 243. The following information has been extracted from the source record. Eden Irons, male, age 31, miller, born in New Jersey. Sarah J. Irons, female, age 30, born in New Jersey. Lewis R. Irons, male, age 3, born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons are a married couple, with the following children: Lewis R. Irons.
3. 1870 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Dover, Ocean, NJ, pg. 34, dwell. 289. The following information has been extracted from the source record. John C. Irons, male, age 74, farmer, born in New Jersey. Sarah Irons, female, age 73, house keeper, born in New Jersey. Eden Irons, male,age 40, house carpenter, born in New Jersey. Sarah J. Irons, female,age 40, born in New Jersey. Elizabeth Polhemus, female, age 13, bornin New Jersey. Lewis R. Irons, male, age 13, born in New Jersey. John B. Irons, male, age 8, born in New Jersey. Winfield, male, age 2, born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons are a married couple, with the following children: Lewis R. Irons, John B. Irons, and Winfield Irons. John C. Irons and Sarah Irons are likely the parents of Eden Irons based upon order of listing in the source. Elizabeth Polhemus is likely not a child of this family.
4. Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain (1848 to 1878 Index to Marriage Records), Marr Rec, Ocean, NJ, Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain. The following information has been extracted from the source record. Randolph Irons married Anna Chamberlain in an unrecorded location in 1877, registered in Ocean County, according to New Jersey Department of Archives and Records Management 1848 to 1878 Index to Marriage Records. Original record is in Book BU, page 147. ANALYSIS: Source states that Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain are a married couple.
5. 1880 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Dover, Ocean, NJ, pg. 39, dwell. 388. The following information has been extracted from the source record. John C. Irons, male, age 84, father, widowed, farmer, born in New Jersey. Eden Irons, male, age 50, farmer and carpenter, born in New Jersey. Sarah J. Irons, female, age 49, keeping house, born in New Jersey. John B. Irons, male, age 18, son, single, farm laborer, born in New Jersey. Winfield, male, age 13, son, single, at school, born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons are likely a married couple, with the following children: John B. Irons and Winfield Irons. John C. Irons is listed as a father, and is likely the father of Eden Irons.
6. 1880 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Dover, Ocean, NJ, pg. 17, dwell. 182. The following information has been extracted from the source record. Randolph Irons, male, age 22, married, wheelwright, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. Annie Irons, female, age 25, wife, married, keeping house, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. George Irons, male, age 17, apprentice, single, apprentice wheelwright, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. Nellie Irons, female, age 1, daughter, married, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Randolph Irons and Annie Irons are a married couple, with Nellie Irons as a daughter. The source is obviously in error in that it is not possible for Nellie Irons to be both age 1 and married. Based on the ages of the parents, it is her age that is listed correctly. She is not married. George Irons is not a son, considering he is listed in the relationship column of the source census as an apprentice.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

1860 United States Federal Census. Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29.

1870 United States Federal Census. Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29.

1880 United States Federal Census. Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29.

1848 to 1878 Index to Marriage Records, to New Jersey Department of Archives and Records Management

James W. Hook. Smith, Grant and Irons Families of New Jersey's Shore Counties.

#29 leeirons

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:39 PM

This is how I might reorganize the family group sheet record.

-------------------------

Father Lewis Randolph IRONS-4551

Individual Facts

Birth 1857
Ocean, New Jersey, United States

Roles

Child Resident 1860
Eden IRONS-283 and Sarah Jane SHINN-468; Household of Eden Irons; Brick, Ocean, New Jersey, United States2

Child Resident 1870
Eden IRONS-283 and Sarah Jane SHINN-468; Household of Eden Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States3

Groom 1877
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Child Not Accounted With Family 1880
Eden IRONS-283 and Sarah Jane SHINN-468; Household of Eden Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States5

Husband 1880
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Household of Randolph Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Husband's Parents
Eden Irons and Sarah Jane Irons are the parents of the Lewis Randolph Irons who married Anna Chamberlain

Occasion 1877
Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Proximity 1880
Household of Randolph Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6


Father Eden IRONS-283 (1829- )
Mother Sarah Jane SHINN-468 (1831- )

Mother Anna CHAMBERLAIN-801

Individual Facts

Birth 1855
Ocean, New Jersey, United States

Roles

Bride 1877
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Wife 1880
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Household of Randolph Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Father
Mother

Family Facts

Family Sources1

Husband's Parents
Eden Irons and Sarah Jane Irons are the parents of the Lewis Randolph Irons who married Anna Chamberlain

Occasion 1877
Marriage of Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain; Ocean, New Jersey, United States4

Proximity 1880
Household of Randolph Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6


Children

F Nellie IRONS-4621

Individual Facts

Birth 1879
Ocean, New Jersey, United States

Roles

Daughter 1880
Lewis Randolph IRONS-455 and Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80; Household of Randolph Irons; Dover, Ocean, New Jersey, United States6

Family Sources1
______________________________________________________________________________

FAMILY NOTES
Husband's Parents:
Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons who would be age 23 in 1880, is no longer present in their household in 1880 in Ocean County, New Jersey. The household of Randolph Irons and Annie Irons first appears in the New Jersey Federal Census in 1880, after a Randolph Irons and Annie Chamberlain were married in 1877 in Ocean County, New Jersey. Hook (1955) identifies the son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons as Lewis Randolph Irons. There is no other Lewis Irons or Randolph Irons around the age of 23 in the 1880 census in New Jersey. Thus, Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons is the same person as the Randolph Irons who married Annie Chamberlain and has a household with her (Annie Irons) in 1880.
Occasion (1877): Randolph Irons is married to Anna Chamberlain.
Proximity (1880): Randolph Irons, age 22, is married and residing with Annie Irons, age 25, with the following children also in residence: Nellie Irons, daughter, age 1. Everyone and everyone's parents were born in New Jersey.
General: This family is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this family is comprised of: Lewis Randolph Irons (father, born about 1857), Anna Chamberlain (mother, born about 1855), and Nellie Irons (daughter, born about 1879). No research has been done on this family beyond 1880.


FATHER NOTES: Lewis Randolph IRONS-455
Child Resident (1860): Detailed Source Information: Lewis R. Irons, age 3, born in New Jersey.
Child Resident (1870): Detailed Source Information: Lewis R. Irons, age 13, born in New Jersey.
Groom (1877): Detailed Source Information: Randolph Irons gets married, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey.
Child Not Accounted With Family (1880): Detailed Source Information: Lewis R. Irons not recorded with the parents in the 1880 census.
Look for Match: Lewis R. Irons, would be 22 or 23.
Connection: See Randolph Irons.
Husband (1880): Detailed Source Information: Randolph Irons, age 22, wheelwright, born in New Jersey.
Connection: Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons.
General: This individual is recorded in Hook (1955) as follows. Lewis Randolph Irons, born 1857, listed as a son of Eden Irons and Sarah Jane Shinn. No information is in the book about his death date.
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this individual is Lewis Randolph Irons who was born about 1857, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey, where he lived most of his life through 1880. No research has been done on this individual beyond 1880.

MOTHER NOTES: Anna CHAMBERLAIN-80
Bride (1877): Detailed Source Information: Anna Chamberlain gets married, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey.
Wife (1880): Detailed Source Information: Annie Irons, age 25, keeping house, born in New Jersey.
General: This individual is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this individual is Anna Chamberlain who was born about 1855, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey, where she lived most of her life through 1880. No research has been done on this individual beyond 1880.

FAMILY NOTES
Husband's Parents:
Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons who would be age 23 in 1880, is no longer present in their household in 1880 in Ocean County, New Jersey. The household of Randolph Irons and Annie Irons first appears in the New Jersey Federal Census in 1880, after a Randolph Irons and Annie Chamberlain were married in 1877 in Ocean County, New Jersey. Hook (1955) identifies the son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons as Lewis Randolph Irons. There is no other Lewis Irons or Randolph Irons around the age of 23 in the 1880 census in New Jersey. Thus, Lewis R. Irons, son of Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons is the same person as the Randolph Irons who married Annie Chamberlain and has a household with her (Annie Irons) in 1880.
Occasion (1877): Randolph Irons is married to Anna Chamberlain.
Proximity (1880): Randolph Irons, age 22, is married and residing with Annie Irons, age 25, with the following children also in residence: Nellie Irons, daughter, age 1. Everyone and everyone's parents were born in New Jersey.
General: This family is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this family is comprised of: Lewis Randolph Irons (father, born about 1857), Anna Chamberlain (mother, born about 1855), and Nellie Irons (daughter, born about 1879). No research has been done on this family beyond 1880.


CHILD NOTES: Nellie IRONS-462
Daughter (1880): Detailed Source Information: Nellie Irons, age 1, born in New Jersey.
General: This individual is not recorded in Hook (1955).
Conclusion: All evidence together indicates that this individual is Nellie Irons who was born about 1879, likely in Ocean County, New Jersey, where she lived most of her life through 1880. No research has been done on this individual beyond 1880.

END NOTES:
1. James W. Hook, Smith, Grant and Irons Families of New Jersey's Shore Counties.
2. 1860 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Brick, Ocean, NJ, pg. 36, dwell. 243. The following information has been extracted from the source record. Eden Irons, male, age 31, miller, born in New Jersey. Sarah J. Irons, female, age 30, born in New Jersey. Lewis R. Irons, male, age 3, born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons are a married couple, with the following children: Lewis R. Irons.
3. 1870 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Dover, Ocean, NJ, pg. 34, dwell. 289. The following information has been extracted from the source record. John C. Irons, male, age 74, farmer, born in New Jersey. Sarah Irons, female, age 73, house keeper, born in New Jersey. Eden Irons, male,age 40, house carpenter, born in New Jersey. Sarah J. Irons, female,age 40, born in New Jersey. Elizabeth Polhemus, female, age 13, bornin New Jersey. Lewis R. Irons, male, age 13, born in New Jersey. John B. Irons, male, age 8, born in New Jersey. Winfield, male, age 2, born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons are a married couple, with the following children: Lewis R. Irons, John B. Irons, and Winfield Irons. John C. Irons and Sarah Irons are likely the parents of Eden Irons based upon order of listing in the source. Elizabeth Polhemus is likely not a child of this family.
4. Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain (1848 to 1878 Index to Marriage Records), Marr Rec, Ocean, NJ, Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain. The following information has been extracted from the source record. Randolph Irons married Anna Chamberlain in an unrecorded location in 1877, registered in Ocean County, according to New Jersey Department of Archives and Records Management 1848 to 1878 Index to Marriage Records. Original record is in Book BU, page 147. ANALYSIS: Source states that Randolph Irons and Anna Chamberlain are a married couple.
5. 1880 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Dover, Ocean, NJ, pg. 39, dwell. 388. The following information has been extracted from the source record. John C. Irons, male, age 84, father, widowed, farmer, born in New Jersey. Eden Irons, male, age 50, farmer and carpenter, born in New Jersey. Sarah J. Irons, female, age 49, keeping house, born in New Jersey. John B. Irons, male, age 18, son, single, farm laborer, born in New Jersey. Winfield, male, age 13, son, single, at school, born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Eden Irons and Sarah J. Irons are likely a married couple, with the following children: John B. Irons and Winfield Irons. John C. Irons is listed as a father, and is likely the father of Eden Irons.
6. 1880 United States Federal Census (Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29), Dover, Ocean, NJ, pg. 17, dwell. 182. The following information has been extracted from the source record. Randolph Irons, male, age 22, married, wheelwright, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. Annie Irons, female, age 25, wife, married, keeping house, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. George Irons, male, age 17, apprentice, single, apprentice wheelwright, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. Nellie Irons, female, age 1, daughter, married, born in New Jersey, parents born in New Jersey. ANALYSIS: Randolph Irons and Annie Irons are a married couple, with Nellie Irons as a daughter. The source is obviously in error in that it is not possible for Nellie Irons to be both age 1 and married. Based on the ages of the parents, it is her age that is listed correctly. She is not married. George Irons is not a son, considering he is listed in the relationship column of the source census as an apprentice.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

1860 United States Federal Census. Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29.

1870 United States Federal Census. Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29.

1880 United States Federal Census. Records of the Bureau of the Census, Record Group 29.

1848 to 1878 Index to Marriage Records, to New Jersey Department of Archives and Records Management

James W. Hook. Smith, Grant and Irons Families of New Jersey's Shore Counties.

#30 leeirons

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:38 AM

Just in case there is interest or curiosity in with what I am doing with the facts, above, here is a link to another thread where I explain my approach to Shared Family Facts.

#31 leeirons

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:21 PM

I just noticed something else that would be helpful and make the Family Group Sheet much more easy to follow. In the notes lists for the family and each member of the family, the value of the Description field should be listed after the value of the Date field inside the parentheses at the beginning of each note.

In other words, rather than:

CHILD NOTES: Nellie IRONS-462
Daughter (1880): Detailed Source Information: Nellie Irons, age 1, born in New Jersey.


It would be nice if it were:

CHILD NOTES: Nellie IRONS-462
Daughter (1880, Household of Randolph Irons): Detailed Source Information: Nellie Irons, age 1, born in New Jersey


This ensures that each specific note can be associated with its specific Family Fact, especially if there are Family Facts with the same date (easy to happen when the date is just a year).

#32 Alfred

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:03 PM

I think the way it is in RootsMagic is simpler and easier to understand.
Maybe a FAMILY line between the father's individual items and family items, with Father and Mother moved up above it, would be an improvement, but that would be all the change I would want to see.
Alfred

#33 Nettie

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:19 AM

I think the way it is in RootsMagic is simpler and easier to understand.
Maybe a FAMILY line between the father's individual items and family items, with Father and Mother moved up above it, would be an improvement, but that would be all the change I would want to see.


Totally agree. Thanks Alfred...

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#34 leeirons

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:41 PM

Maybe a FAMILY line between the father's individual items and family items, with Father and Mother moved up above it, would be an improvement...

That is what I originally asked for in this thread.

...but that would be all the change I would want to see.

I can justfy the other redlined changes I put in my example above. :)

I moved the family notes below the father and mother notes because that would line up with the family facts being moved below the father and mother facts. This way, everything remains relatively aligned on the page. The family facts are moved to being after the mother facts, so I moved the family notes to being after the mother notes. Not extremely important, but it makes everything appear to be logically organized.

I added "fact" and "role" subheadings to separate fact listings from role listing for each person. Without this, they all blur together. Again, not extremely important, but it does help everything appear to be more organized.

I added the description in the parenheses with the date in the notes listing, because this helps match the note up with the correct corresponding fact listed with the corresponding person's vital information. I think this is very important, because it helps with connectivity and continuity of information.

#35 Renee Zamora

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 08:00 PM

Confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system. Until it is implemented you could always name the father "Unknown" and he will show up on the FGS with the family facts linked to him.
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RootsMagic

#36 Alfred

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 08:57 PM

Confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system. Until it is implemented you could always name the father "Unknown" and he will show up on the FGS with the family facts linked to him.

I have at least one woman in my database who had a child out of wedlock.
I have no idea who the father is, she never said, so it is blank but the child information is filled in.
The Family group sheet shows a blank father area, there is no family information so none is listed but the mother and child areas are filled in.

I don't need an Unknown name for the father.
Alfred

#37 leeirons

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:59 PM

I have at least one woman in my database who had a child out of wedlock.
I have no idea who the father is, she never said, so it is blank but the child information is filled in.
The Family group sheet shows a blank father area, there is no family information so none is listed but the mother and child areas are filled in.

I don't need an Unknown name for the father.

Alfred, this thread was regarding my request.

#38 leeirons

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:05 PM

Confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system. Until it is implemented you could always name the father "Unknown" and he will show up on the FGS with the family facts linked to him.

Renee, Just to clarify, because this thread has wandered off-topic a couple of times. The enhancement request that initiated this thread is to move the Family Facts from being listed with the father's individual facts to being listed under its own heading either between the father and mother or after the mother. A related request for the role notes that are printed on Family Group Sheets is to list the Description field of a shared fact inside the parentheses with the Date field to the riught of the role in teh role note, thus making it visually apparent regarding which role notes go with which shared fact notes.