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#1 DoddemaGen

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

Quick question. When would you use PDF over JPG? I've been using JPG's exclusively for the last few years even for documents such as marriage and census records. Is there a better method? Does it matter?

Hoping we can more webinars on issues such as these!

Bernard Doddema, Jr.

#2 TomH

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:20 PM

RM4 prints only image files such as JPG, PNG in its reports so, if you want RM4 to print it, don't use PDF.

Some resources, e.g. Ancestry.com, support printing an image in a PDF along with the database and citation details. The latter is handy, kept together with the image in one file and is searchable (along with all PDF files containing actual text, not simply an image of text) using Adobe Reader in a fashion similar to Windows Explorer; I believe that you can also download and install a filter from Adobe that will enable Windows searches on PDF text content. If you want RM4 to print, download and attach both PDF and JPG.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#3 Nettie

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:01 PM

If there is a choice between pdf and jpg, like Heritage Quest gives you, take jpg. Any good photo software can change pdf to jpg for you. At least I know Photoshop Elements does this.

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#4 APerson

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 02:06 PM

Generally speaking, I use .jpg for all of my files (at least for those attached to my data). For archival purposes, other formats (such as .tif) are better but those files also tend to be larger. There are many times, however, that a .pdf is more useful - particularly with large, typed/printed, multiple-page, text documents.

#5 c24m48

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:37 PM

When would you use PDF over JPG?

The way I decide (and it's not just for genealogy) is based on the original design purpose of the two kinds of files. Namely, PDF is a text format and JPG is a graphics format. So I use PDF (and a few other text formats) for data that is text (or primarily text) and JPG (and a few other graphics formats) for data that is graphic.

The thing that confuses this issue is that many text formats support embedded graphics, and PDF is such a format. And for some reason that I don't understand, it's fairly common for a PDF file to contain no text and to contain exactly one embedded image. Such a PDF acts a lot like a graphics file, but it really isn't.

Here is an example that might help explain things. You can now order Civil War Pension files from the National Archives on CD in addition to ordering them on paper. If you do it that way, they will send you one CD containing one PDF file. The PDF file typically will contain no text and typically will contain many dozens of embedded images. I love getting the information on CD instead of on paper, but I find the embedded images to be extremely difficult to work with. So the first thing I do with the one PDF file that the National Archives sends me is to run a program to extract all the embedded images into JPG files.

Jerry

#6 Nettie

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 08:55 AM

Here is an example that might help explain things. You can now order Civil War Pension files from the National Archives on CD in addition to ordering them on paper. If you do it that way, they will send you one CD containing one PDF file. The PDF file typically will contain no text and typically will contain many dozens of embedded images. I love getting the information on CD instead of on paper, but I find the embedded images to be extremely difficult to work with. So the first thing I do with the one PDF file that the National Archives sends me is to run a program to extract all the embedded images into JPG files.

Jerry


Thanks Jerry for this information from NARA, the world is 'a changing'. The only pdf files I have are books, downloaded information. Or my created pdf files.

Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#7 Don Newcomb

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 04:28 PM

Along with everyone else, I use JPG files for things that are images of something: pictures, manuscripts, etc. and I use PDF when the source was a word processor. Now PDFs allow you to embed images and GenealogyBank lets you download images of newspaper articles or pages as a PDF. What I normally do in this case is to copy and paste from the PDF into Irfanview (or MSPaint) and save the image as a JPG. This way it plays more nicely in RM4.

#8 Leah

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:25 PM

Another reason to use PDF for text documents is that they are usually searchable.Paper documents that have been scanned using OCR (optical character recognition) to PDF format, or word processed documents that you convert to PDF can be searched for specific text within the document itself. You will lose that functionality by converting the file to jpg. If I download a newspaper article from an online archive, I will chose pdf if given the option.

#9 Newbie-6

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:30 AM

Quick question. When would you use PDF over JPG? I've been using JPG's exclusively for the last few years even for documents such as marriage and census records. Is there a better method? Does it matter?

Hoping we can more webinars on issues such as these!

Bernard Doddema, Jr.


Although the original post is somewhat dated, here is my two cents:

I have converted all JPG's to PDF using software available free on the inter net.
I have also installed a pdf print driver which saves the web page, documents or whatever is being viewed as a PDF.

RM4 does allow the printing of PDF's. (Please no semantic arguments)actually it's the pdf driver (viewer) that does the printing.

Many web pages and documents are saved as JPG's or otherwise known as PICTURES. Pictures generally do not contain any usable text data that can be edited. exported or searched.

PDF's that are text based (as many are) are not pictures, but text. They can be edited, exported and searched. Extremely useful.

A word of caution: Converting all my jpgs that are linked in the media library to PDf's causes them to become unlinked and not available for display in RM4.

To resolve this problem: create a GED file. With a text editor perform a search and replace for JPG and replace with PDF. Import the new GED and linking problem solved.

All the activities described here - with the right software takes a matter of minutes to complete.

When adding PDF's to the media library, use file and not image.

Good luck.

PS. Be sure to have the latest PDF reader installed (Adobe, Foxit and many others).

#10 TomH

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:12 AM

How do you get the PDF image to print in a RM report or from RM Publisher?

Having restored the broken link after conversion of JPGs to PDFs, you may still have a thumbnail generated from the JPG but will lose it when you regenerate thumbnails, being replaced by the PDF icon.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#11 Ludlow Bay

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 11:35 AM

How do you get the PDF image to print in a RM report or from RM Publisher?

Having restored the broken link after conversion of JPGs to PDFs, you may still have a thumbnail generated from the JPG but will lose it when you regenerate thumbnails, being replaced by the PDF icon.


Also, PDF's don't display/print/link in place of regular image files when using the website generator ...

#12 TomH

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:06 PM

A word of caution: Converting all my jpgs that are linked in the media library to PDf's causes them to become unlinked and not available for display in RM4.

To resolve this problem: create a GED file. With a text editor perform a search and replace for JPG and replace with PDF. Import the new GED and linking problem solved.

Setting aside the question as to why one would want to convert JPG's to PDF's, there is an easier and lossless way to re-establish the links without having to go through the GEDCOM export, open with a text editor and search & replace, import to a new database. Just use RM's own Search & Replace: no potential loss of data via the GEDCOM transfer and a simpler procedure.

But one is probably well advised to retain the JPGs for their superior usability within RM and also use PDF's of documents with text content for their searchability outside RM. There's no reason why both should not be linked within RM to relevant persons, events, sources, citations, places, sites,... One practical advantage is that using a workaround (and, hopefully, a future feature), one can backup the database and all the multimedia files to which it links to a ZIP file. See Backup Media with Database - 7Zip.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
SQLite_Tools_For_Roots_Magic_in_PR_Celti wiki, exploiting the database in special ways >>> Rmtrix_tiny.png app, a growing bundle of RootsMagic utilities.


#13 Newbie-6

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:33 PM

Setting aside the question as to why one would want to convert JPG's to PDF's, there is an easier and lossless way to re-establish the links without having to go through the GEDCOM export, open with a text editor and search & replace, import to a new database. Just use RM's own Search & Replace: no potential loss of data via the GEDCOM transfer and a simpler procedure.

But one is probably well advised to retain the JPGs for their superior usability within RM and also use PDF's of documents with text content for their searchability outside RM. There's no reason why both should not be linked within RM to relevant persons, events, sources, citations, places, sites,... One practical advantage is that using a workaround (and, hopefully, a future feature), one can backup the database and all the multimedia files to which it links to a ZIP file. See Backup Media with Database - 7Zip.


Ah yes, the search & replace. That works just as well and maybe better. The number of steps to accomplish both is about the same. Being some what cautious about the potential of corrupting files, I sometime take the long route. I've taken another look at the pdf/jpg in my records and the only difference I see is the lack of thumbnails, and having the PRINT function grayed out with RM. To print within (PDF vs. JPG) RM, the process is one step different ie, reversed.

You mention: "But one is probably well advised to retain the JPGs for their superior usability within RM".
How are JPG's superior I wonder. Jpgs are easily altered - PDF's not as easy. Both require specialized.

When printing the JPG within RM, I like the appearance of the preview screen. Very much like the Save screen as a PDF from the family search web site. Saved as a JPG - you loose the text ability- a very important attribute retained with PDF's

#14 Alfred

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:00 PM

You mention: "But one is probably well advised to retain the JPGs for their superior usability within RM".
How are JPG's superior I wonder. Jpgs are easily altered - PDF's not as easy. Both require specialized.


"superior usability within RM"! JPGs can be displayed on screen or in RootsMagic reports where PDFs cannot. (That's why you don't see the thumbnails etc.)
PDFs have to be displayed using another program, RootsMagic cannot display them.
Alfred

#15 Laura

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:08 AM

You could link both the .pdf and the image files if you have both. Then you would have the benefit of both file formats.

#16 Newbie-6

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:00 PM

You could link both the .pdf and the image files if you have both. Then you would have the benefit of both file formats.


True, then would you suggest using the same image properties (description) for both image and pdf?

Regards

#17 Newbie-6

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:03 PM

"superior usability within RM"! JPGs can be displayed on screen or in RootsMagic reports where PDFs cannot. (That's why you don't see the thumbnails etc.)
PDFs have to be displayed using another program, RootsMagic cannot display them.


True, this is why in my post I said : "PS. Be sure to have the latest PDF reader installed (Adobe, Foxit and many others)"
Regards

#18 Newbie-6

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

Also, PDF's don't display/print/link in place of regular image files when using the website generator ...


Since reading this post, I created a test web site and added several PDF's and JPG's to RM4 and no where are
there any references to either in the web page. Should there be some reference (linking) to those files on the web page?

I think I may have missed something here. :blink:

#19 TomH

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

RM outputs to reports and websites but one image file (read JPG, not PDF) per person or per family, except for the Publish tool which includes an album per Scrapbook. A uniquely flagged primary image is the one exported if there are multiple images tagged/linked to the Person or Family. Note that images tagged/linked to events, sources, citations, places, place details are not outputted (except for Scrapbook) - only an image tagged/linked to the Person (top line of Edit Person) or to the Family (read couple or spousal relationship and down the edit person screen to below the Parents row). If multiple images are marked primary or none are, RM outputs one anyway, likely either the first or last one tagged/linked.

Tom user of RM7230 FTM2017 Ancestry.ca FamilySearch.org FindMyPast.com
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#20 Laura

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:54 PM

True, then would you suggest using the same image properties (description) for both image and pdf?

Regards


I would use the same file name for both and save them in the same folder. I would probably the same properties, but what to use in properties could be a case by case decision.

In RM5 there is also a Comment box on Tag this image screen where a different comment can be entered for each person, fact, place or source which the same media is linked to where you may want to enter data. This comment doesn't show on the Media Album or Media Gallery screens. You have to open the Tag this image screen to read it.