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#21 Nettie

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:42 AM

No matter what Records Management/filing system you decide to use, it should work with any electronic genealogy databases.  My system works with RM, Clooz, Evidentia and also one of the other software database program.  Bottom line you need to be able to find/get back to your work no matter how long ago/many years you have worked on it. Dollarhide's system is one of the best suggestions and I have used it for many years.  I quoted Mary Hill's as a way to look at it differently. 


Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#22 Renee Zamora

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:21 AM

i just had a look at this tutorial and marketing presentation and think that it starts off on the wrong foot and the system will quickly collapse in confusion. Their mistake is in thinking that Rec# in People View is the MRIN. The filing system is based on MRIN. Only coincidentally, the RIN (Rec#) of the male in the example matched the MRIN of his one marriage.

 

That is actually the MRIN for the couple. There isn't an option in the Marriage List to show their Rec#. The only option for numbers is to "Print marriage record number".  

 

That said I agree that a number system based on computer generated record numbers will fall apart at some point. The biggest concern is if your database every becomes so corrupted it requires a drag n drop, you will loose those computer assigned numbers. If you want to use specific numbers then use the Reference No. fact in RootsMagic to record the number so you never loose it.


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#23 Laura

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:34 AM

For me, my goal was to come up with a hard copy filing system and computer folder system that would not require having more than one copy of a document.  So that ruled out having a copy of some sources like a census page or marriage page filed in multiple Name or Surname folders for both hard copy and computer files.

 

I evaluated each type of document and decided how it would be best for me to file them.

 

Census eliments

Census, State, County, Year

 

Death certificate eliments:

Death Certificate, State, County, Name

 

Marriage eliments

Marriage, State, County, Volume, Page

 

Depending on how many pages of a type you have will help decide where you will make the change from Subfolders to filing the pages in the folder depending on how you want to group pages.

 

For instance, 2 pages of cenuses in North Carolina,.  Pages would be filed in Census [divider, computer folder], State [folder] and pages filed in that folder by County, Year and page number.

 

I have many census pages for Arksnsas, so I file those pages by Census, State, County Year and by page number in the Year folder.

 

On the computer, North Carolina census pages would also be filed in the Year folder to maintain consistancy as computer subfolders don't take up physical space in a filing cabinent or binder.



#24 larrewl

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:49 AM

 

That is actually the MRIN for the couple. There isn't an option in the Marriage List to show their Rec#. The only option for numbers is to "Print marriage record number".  

 

That said I agree that a number system based on computer generated record numbers will fall apart at some point. The biggest concern is if your database every becomes so corrupted it requires a drag n drop, you will loose those computer assigned numbers. If you want to use specific numbers then use the Reference No. fact in RootsMagic to record the number so you never loose it.

Where might I see an example, template, or guidance on a filing system structure using RM fact Reference Number? :)



#25 MaryLou

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:55 PM

Depending on any genealogy software for organizing information is a very bad thing. 



#26 MaryLou

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:03 PM

For me, my goal was to come up with a hard copy filing system and computer folder system that would not require having more than one copy of a document.  So that ruled out having a copy of some sources like a census page or marriage page filed in multiple Name or Surname folders for both hard copy and computer files.

 

I evaluated each type of document and decided how it would be best for me to file them.

 

Census eliments

Census, State, County, Year

 

Death certificate eliments:

Death Certificate, State, County, Name

 

Marriage eliments

Marriage, State, County, Volume, Page

 

Depending on how many pages of a type you have will help decide where you will make the change from Subfolders to filing the pages in the folder depending on how you want to group pages.

 

For instance, 2 pages of cenuses in North Carolina,.  Pages would be filed in Census [divider, computer folder], State [folder] and pages filed in that folder by County, Year and page number.

 

I have many census pages for Arksnsas, so I file those pages by Census, State, County Year and by page number in the Year folder.

 

On the computer, North Carolina census pages would also be filed in the Year folder to maintain consistancy as computer subfolders don't take up physical space in a filing cabinent or binder.

 

Laura,

If you give each document a name, then refer to the "Name of the document" then you only need 1 copy of the document.

 

It is like having a pointer to every document.  Many people can reference the same document by using the pointer.



#27 Nettie

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 10:24 PM

Where might I see an example, template, or guidance on a filing system structure using RM fact Reference Number? :)

Ref number can be the document number, alpha/numeric or both, that is assigned outside of RM for your own organizing  document system. 

I use the Ref number for the number that is stated in someone else's book for the family. Ref Number in RM can be used how ever you want it to be.

A single document reference number is assigned by me using Excel prior to putting it/source in RM database.

I use State & a number.  Like for VA, I have over 500 documents and KY the same.  So they get a number like KY214.  Another way would be KYCen214 or if a will KYWill214....  Using the Reference Number this way for me, does not work as I may have up to 5 sources for a fact/event. That is why I use the number system that is set up in the Citation Manager for the individual sources number. 

 

Quoting "Depending on any genealogy software for organizing information is a very bad thing."

My take on this is "A genealogy software package is an organization of the family you are researching." How you entered the information into the software is your way of organizing your families. Otherwise I would probably be using the organizing charts in Visio to say who is with which family.  :) 


Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#28 Renee Zamora

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:42 AM

Where might I see an example, template, or guidance on a filing system structure using RM fact Reference Number? :)

 

Nettie tells you how to use the Reference No. field in the sources.

 

The one I was referring to is the Reference No. fact that can be added on the Edit Person screen. In this fact you can record any information you want. So whatever filing system you find and want to use you can put that numbering system in the Reference No. fact and never lose it.

 

The important thing about this Reference No. is it can be displayed after a person's name. Go to Tools>File Options>General>Name to display after name. You will see this on any screen after a person's name, and be used on reports. You can also add it as a column in the People View to sort on it.


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#29 Vyger

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:36 AM

Depending on any genealogy software for organizing information is a very bad thing. 

Many years ago I collaborated with two other researchers on a one name study and we quickly crashed into massive duplication of files due to different naming conventions. We quickly realized we needed a system that combined with a folder system would at least group similar files together. We did agree a system and it has served me well for the last ~15 years and some example file names are below.

smith-john,1900-jan-29-(bir)  - (birth registration document)
smith-john,fellows-margaret,1920-feb-14-(m)    - (marriage registration document)
smith-john,1970-sep-12-(obit)    - (copy of obituary)
gracey-henry,1901-eastland-street-(#85)-belfast-(cens)
blackwell-alice-mary,1870-damascus-wayne-PA-(cens)
eagleson-margaret,1899-aug-28-(bur)


I think this is pretty self explanatory, the key being that the file name contains many searchable features like within Windows I can search for "blackwell (cens)" or 2gracey eastland" etc. Just to make a point here Rootsmagic whilst providing a search facility within Media Gallery does not cater for multi component search at present so that same search does not work.

I agree with MaryLou that trusting a genealogy program to maintain a filing system is fraught with danger, document systems should stand on their own.

Image/Document properties should also be embraced in management and whilst this is beneficial within the OS Rootsmagic does not provide and support at present for reading or updating properties and I believe at least at a basic level this should be considered for a future version.

image-properties.png


“The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today"

 

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#30 Nettie

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:37 AM

Renee, guess I should be more specific.

I said "I use the Ref number for the number that is stated in someone else's book for the family. Ref Number in RM can be used how ever you want it to be."

  1.  I was referring to the fact / Ref number that I use for someone else's book.  example: DeCp58, LeM#25 etc..[3 letters of surname plus page or].
  2. Yes, the other reference to the source number are in the Citation manager.  
  3. The built in Reference number/MRIN per person/couple is program generated.  Which is good to have....

One document to many different people in the record is well used in RM as it should be .  I have never kept two copies of a record even with many different surnames on the record. example: census record page, will, obit, marriage etc...  Cross referencing is my way of doing this, thus the reason for numbering my sources..  :) 


Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0 


#31 gerwally

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:38 AM

I use a system based on an article I found in a Family Tree magazine on organizing your computer files.  I have a Genealogy folder and within it have a Records folder.  I have a surname folder for each surname on my pedigree chart.  I have various subfolders within each surname folder for census, births, deaths, newspapers, military, etc.  Additional subfolders can be added for different types of records as neccessary.  I name each folder with the surname, first name, date, location (two letter state abbreviation or other if not a state and with a county if approriate), and type of record.  An example of a folder in a census folder for the surname Wolf/Wolfe would be wolfe henry 1930 pa indiana census.  This is a census record for Henry Wolfe in the 1930 census for Indiana County, Pennsylvania.  I can find any digital record using this system. 



#32 MaryLou

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:09 AM

I started out with a system very similar to the one you describe.  Then I found an article in a genealogy journal that named the folks attending the estate sale for one of my ancestors.  Mentioned in the article were related folks of other surnames.  I was happy to get this information: Where all these folks were at a certain date. 

 

But how do I file it?  I changed my system to not associate people names with the document name.  I named the article "Deathxxx" (xxx being the next number in sequence of death documents) , since it primarily had to do with the death of an ancestor.  In the files of all mentioned related folks I referenced the document to show where they were on this date. 

 

Now that I am digitizing all my records I have loosened up on the document name rules and included the name of the ancestor that the estate sale was for. 



#33 dvickers

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:20 AM

I am always amazed at the work people go through to organize their information!  I have no intention here to dismiss anything that has been said here but it all seems like  lot of work an I would like to put my efforts into researching my family.  I have made it my personal goal to get rid of all but the most precious of my paper heirlooms by digitizing them.  While there is danger in organizing around one software program, I started with PAF and migtated to RM and haven't lost a thing.  I can't say that about my paper efforts.  Floods, insects, leaky roofs, fire and overzealous spouses have done more to damage my files than anything else.  And which stack is that FGS in?

 

Early on I did some work with my mother-in-laws' piles.  She had one aunt who had a scheme so verstile and accurate that anyone could use it.  The trouble is she died without leaving the code.  All tht work to no avail.

 

I demand that any system I employ operates under the KISS organizational theory.

 

I use RM to keep me organized.  It has a variety of features that can be used to accomplish this.

 

I am guided by 4 principles:

 

Rule #1: either digitize everything or get it in electronic form.

 

Rule #2:  The paper that I keep (even though a copy is also digitized) is put in a hanging folder (inside acid-free protectors) and is sequentialy numbered.  The number is also recorded in the Notes section of the related RM fact for that person.

 

Rule # 3:  I use Mozy to back up the files both locally and on the Internet 12 times a day.

 

Rule #4:  I keep my saw ( the computer) sharp with all the protection needed and I visit what I am using on a regular basis.

 

I have organized  all my data into 4 major groups consisting of separate databases and documents for each.  (My maternal, paternal and the same for my wife.

 

Within each line there is a general folder--Vickers Genealogy being one.  Under that there are two folders-Vickers Databases and Vickers Documents and Pictures.  Under this there is a folder for each of the major record types:



#34 dvickers

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:46 AM

Got cut off--even the computer thinks I was being long-winded!

 

Folders

Articles and Books

Births Records

Census Records

Death Records

Genealogies

Grave Records

Marriage Records

Military Records

Obituaries

Pictures

 

All my digital images are put into the appropriate folder.

 

If I can't find an image, I PDF it or scan it.

 

In naming the file (of any type) I use the long name capability to name it something recognizable.

 

David M Vickers-1940 US Federal Census

David M Vickers and Catherine Coombs-Marriage Certificate

 

These images/files are then linked into the personal individual's  location as media and I tag the event(s) mentioned in the particular media item.

 

I have begun using webtags in addition to having a digital copy.  I am still not that trusting that links won't be broken!

 

The bigest advantage to me of doing things this way is that everything I have about that person is right there attached to him/her.  I don't have t go looking for it.

 

Another advantage is that it is easy to share with others in thias format.

 

Organization in genealogy seems to come in three types:  1. we don't do it.  2. We think about it and don't do it because we are overwhelmed with complexity.  3.  We tried alot of things and now don't do it. 4.  We put some much effort into it that it becomes a sacred cow or family jewel to be used til death do us part.

 

I have appreciated everyone's ideas and I know many will dismiss minebut I hope there is something you can use. 

 

One thing I believe I did answer is Renee's question about what this has to do with RM, at least to me!!

 

Dave



#35 Vyger

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:33 PM

It would seem that most who have posted are using a system which works for them and not simply depending on Rootsmagic discering between photo1.jpg and photo2.jpg which is a wise choice.

 

This subject got me thinking about other non genealogy files and that is some work I will be undertaking in the near furure.

 

Back to Rootsmagic, I would like to see the use of the windows file system object and Mac equivalent to compliment the file management. Simple right click and "open in windows explorer" would allow users that two window functionality so desired.

 

Copy & Paste like we had in RM3 would be beneficial as currently I find it quicker simply to add the file again from disc.

 

A recursive file comparison feature to help identify and attach files which are currently unattached would be beneficial to keeping any collection complete.

 

Categorization of files within the RM database would also be beneficial, graves, deaths, births etc, this features exists in competitor software.

 

Previous discussion on this subject is now growing a beard so hopefully we will see something with a bit of "magic" in the next version.

 

http://forums.rootsm...n/?hl=recursive


“The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today"

 

Current user of Rootsmagic version 7.5.0.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 and Legacy 8.0 on Win 7

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

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#36 Twigs

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

Can someone tell me if the Reference Numbers in RM will stay the same if you remove or add a family?  I don't believe that MRIN numbers do.  Also my Reference numbers do not show on some of my entries/people.  Why would that be?  

 

 



#37 TomH

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:18 PM

A Reference Number is a fact that you assign to a person, not to be confused with the Record Number or RIN that the software assigns to every person or the Marriage Record Number or MRIN it assigns to every couple. All existing RINs and MRINs remain the same when you add or delete persons or families. Deleted RINs and MRINs are not reused within the same database. However, RINs and MRINs change when persons and families are transferred to another database. Because Reference Numbers are facts, they are immutable except through editing.


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#38 Twigs

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:42 PM

What I am trying to do is have an individual numbering system that I can put in place in my paper files.  Up until now it has been by surname, which has gotten harder as the database grows.  I need a fix for the unrecognized unions and women who choose not to marry.  I would like the numbers to sync with RM.  Being able to print those numbers out on the FGS is also what I want.  Working on cleaning up the paper files and getting it all, including notes into RM.  Need to decide how to make finding individuals easier for me and whoever follows me in this research.

 

Thank you for answering.



#39 Vyger

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:32 PM

Twigs, I would refer you to previous answers and my own belief that you should not strive to marry your filing system to a variable in RM or any other software.

 

You will read in my previous posts that many years ago when I collaborated with two other researchers we found we were duplicating documents at a fierce rate, some were even redistributed back to the original sender maybe with a different name structure. The clean up took some time and we agreed a naming structure which since that day has served me well and I see many other users are using similar naming systems.

 

There is no magic answer but I believe your file name should contain enough information that you know what it is by looking only at the file name. Adding some structure to the way you name files will be of benefit in years to come if you decide to change or modify your system.

 

After many years of using my system I am contemplating some changes which I can thankfully achieve quickly. The change is to make the document clasification more specific to the gedcom standard by suffixing the file name with the gedcom event tag (BIRT), (DEAT) etc. This at least maintains some alignment with the genealogy community but I have other reasons for wishing to make those changes.

 

I would advise you to digitize all your paper files, by all means keep the paper but managing digital files is much easier than paper.


“The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today"

 

Current user of Rootsmagic version 7.5.0.0, Family Tree Maker 2014 and Legacy 8.0 on Win 7

 

Excel to Gedcom conversion - simple getting started tutorials here

 

Root


#40 Nettie

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:38 AM

"Managing your Genealogy Project" by William Dollarhide [2nd edition Amazon.com] would be a good book to read to get some basics for numbering and organizing your research/source citations. :)

 AS mentioned before numbers can get high er  the more you research.  My over 500 sources I have found for 10 families in one state, made me label this along the lines of State [KY] and Number [005] on each source. [KY005]  Very glad I started this and kept track in an Excel file, has kept me from redoing the same item over and over, besides detailing the source in RM using the same number in the Citation Manager area.... 


Genealogy:
"I work on genealogy only on days that end in "Y"." [Grin!!!]
from www.GenealogyDaily.com.
"Documentation....The hardest part of genealogy"
"Genealogy is like Hide & Seek: They Hide & I Seek!"
" Genealogists: People helping people.....that's what it's all about!"
from http://www.rootsweb....nry/gentags.htm
Using FO and RM since FO2.0