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Easier method to create place details


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#1 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 07:56 PM

I think there are benefits in creating place details. However, I am not able to see an easy way of switching from a verbose place listing to one with place details.

Here is an example place in my data,

Greenlawn Cemetery, Frankfort, Concord T., Ross C., OH

I can select this place in the place list and easily create a printed list of about 50 relatives buried in Greenlawn Cemetery. I absolutely refuse to go to each of these 50 relatives to modify the verbose place listing to separate the "Greenlawn Cemetery" from the rest of the listing and put it into the place detail slot.

Suppose we could edit the place with delimiters such as \Greenlawn Cemetery\, Frankfort, Concord T., Ross C., OH

Then we could activate a procedure to be developed by the Roots Magician that would extract the delimited portion for each of the 50 burials and convert the verbose place listing to one with place details. It would need another fix to get rid of the extra comma and the space.

\Greenlawn Cemetery\\\, \\Frankfort, Concord T., Ross C., OH
The above is my first thought. Use a double paired set of delimiters "\\" to indicate characters to be deleted. After such a procedure is run, the old and now unused verbose place listing could be deleted.

#2 Renee Zamora

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:34 AM

The RootsMagician is working on a utility to transfer place details out of the place field.
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#3 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:10 PM

The RootsMagician is working on a utility to transfer place details out of the place field.

Thanks!! If the utility were implemented as suggested, I assume it could process many places in one pass.

#4 Romer

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:38 PM

I'll also be eager to see what he ultimately comes up with. It sounded as though a source conversion utility was also being worked on, so both should be welcome additions.

#5 Dave in New Brunswick

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:21 PM

I had requested a utility many months ago when Place Details first surfaced; however I have manually gone thru my Place List. The benefits were worth the effort, as I have eliminated old place names where amalgamation had taken place, with the old place name now showing in Place Details. I have found many instances where a Place Name has totally disappeared, and with that name now showing in Place Details, I can pin-point it's exact location and add a history note of what once was.
However... I can NO longer do a List Printout of X Cemetery in Y Town. The Reports/Lists/Print all events in a single place/ only allows for a printout from the Place List, So, I cannot segregate just a Cemetery from all of the suburbs, hospitals, residences, funeral homes, etc. etc. in a particular town. Please add a second option to the above Report: Reports/Lists/Print all events in a single place/ Print all events in at single Place Detail.

#6 Renee Zamora

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 04:48 PM

I had requested a utility many months ago when Place Details first surfaced; however I have manually gone thru my Place List. The benefits were worth the effort, as I have eliminated old place names where amalgamation had taken place, with the old place name now showing in Place Details. I have found many instances where a Place Name has totally disappeared, and with that name now showing in Place Details, I can pin-point it's exact location and add a history note of what once was.
However... I can NO longer do a List Printout of X Cemetery in Y Town. The Reports/Lists/Print all events in a single place/ only allows for a printout from the Place List, So, I cannot segregate just a Cemetery from all of the suburbs, hospitals, residences, funeral homes, etc. etc. in a particular town. Please add a second option to the above Report: Reports/Lists/Print all events in a single place/ Print all events in at single Place Detail.

Confirming enhancement request is in our tracking system.
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#7 John_of_Ross_County

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 09:30 PM

I had requested a utility many months ago when Place Details first surfaced; however I have manually gone thru my Place List. The benefits were worth the effort, as I have eliminated old place names where amalgamation had taken place, with the old place name now showing in Place Details. I have found many instances where a Place Name has totally disappeared, and with that name now showing in Place Details, I can pin-point it's exact location and add a history note of what once was.
However... I can NO longer do a List Printout of X Cemetery in Y Town. The Reports/Lists/Print all events in a single place/ only allows for a printout from the Place List, So, I cannot segregate just a Cemetery from all of the suburbs, hospitals, residences, funeral homes, etc. etc. in a particular town. Please add a second option to the above Report: Reports/Lists/Print all events in a single place/ Print all events in at single Place Detail.


I agree with the above request.

Take a look at my posting from 4 years ago concerning place reports.
http://forums.rootsm...h=1
The RootsMagician has already implemented the option for an index of all places referenced in a report. Thanks, Bruce. I would request my suggestions be extended to include place note for place details.

#8 Vyger

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:16 PM

I think there are benefits in creating place details. However, I am not able to see an easy way of switching from a verbose place listing to one with place details.

I would hold off for now as the program cannot continue as it is regarding Place Details and no ability to split them, also as noted the lack of reporting like "all events which happened in a Place Detail"

I have split these outside of Rootsmagic and depending on what Bruce is working on this should be helpful on multiple entries as well as individual ones. See here especially the second graphic down for one idea I had a while back (click to enlarge).

The above would only be useful in single instances and would be useful for the left overs after multiple splits, the logic I used was similar to that below :

1. Find all places that contained Church, Methodist, Cemetery, Street, Avenue, Hospital etc. user input

2. Visually verify the list contains all true Place Details left of first comma (other delimiters could be easily allowed)

3. Exclude entries from list which are not true Place Details like Churchtown, New Zealand.

4. click OK and the program does the rest.

Being able to find within the Place List and view the results are key to this and useful in many other ways so let us hope Bruce is working with a big file of old style Places and can see the current frustrations in managing it never mind splitting out Place Details. Also see the graphic here which was put together with the combined thoughts and wishes of various forum users.

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#9 Vyger

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 05:23 PM

The RootsMagician is working on a utility to transfer place details out of the place field.

BTW, I very much look forward to this utility for new imports etc, in my opinion very much needed and helpful for the future.

Might there also be any enhancement planned to plot place details within a place and therefore show geographic groupings ala http://www.vyger.co....ce-details1.gif ?

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#10 Jerry Bryan

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:31 PM

I'll be interested to see how such a conversion utility works if it is released. I honestly would be pretty nervous about using it for fear of unintended consequences. I would probably be happier if I could go to the Place List and do the same kind of manual editing on a place to split the Place Details from the rest of the Place that I can presently do for an individual event, except that the results would be global to all original occurrences of that particular place. That would save me a lot of time while still leaving me in total control without depending on the vagaries of how a conversion utility might work.

Also, I presently have the following real example. There is a cemetery in Jefferson County, Tennessee called the Oakland Cemetery which is on the grounds of the Oakland United Methodist Church. Of course, historically the name of the church has been Oakland Methodist Church and before that the Oakland M.E. Church. I have discovered that I have some of the burials for the cemetery entered as Place: Jefferson County, Tennessee and Place Details: Oakland Methodist Church Cemetery and I have other of the burials for the cemetery entered as Place: Jefferson City, Jefferson County, Tennessee and Place Details: Oakland M.E. Church Cemetery. It would be lovely to be able to "merge" these two Place/Place Detail combinations, assuming I can decide how I want to the merged combinations to read. Note in particular that both the "place" part of the burial location and the "place details" part of the burial location differ, yet in combination the two burial locations represent the same place. Note also that I can't convert "Jefferson City, Jefferson County, Tennessee" to "Jefferson County, Tennessee" nor vice versa.

This "merger" is not quite the same as splitting a Place into a Place and Place Details, but the "merger" is also needed. I present this example to point out that if I had chosen not to switch from Places alone to using Places/Place Details in combination, the "merger" I want to accomplish would have worked just fine. Sometimes I think dealing with "mergers" of Places/Place Details such as this is as important if not more important than is dealing with splitting a Place into Place/Place Details.

Jerry

#11 Nettie

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:16 PM

Also, I presently have the following real example. There is a cemetery in Jefferson County, Tennessee called the Oakland Cemetery which is on the grounds of the Oakland United Methodist Church. Of course, historically the name of the church has been Oakland Methodist Church and before that the Oakland M.E. Church.

This cemetery is also an example of how the name changed but is still the same place. A ?. would a place note help to document the name changing? should be Oakland M.E. Church [Methodist Episcopal] [prior to 1939] to Oakland Methodist Church [1939] to Oakland United Methodist Church [1964/8]. The Coordinates should be the same for all names. A need to document the name changes but where? In the Place Details note or note for the place?

Many Lutherans have the same issue when the cemeteries are next to the church as they were many years ago. Also a hospital that was active as a hospital 1900 until 1954, then became a Bible College, how would you document that so it could be found today except by the GeoCode?

I personally am working on changing Place Details one by one, as I see they are needed. For me doing a merger transfer would probably cause more clean up. Especially if you have a history of name changes for one Place Detail.

So no matter whether there is a possible way to have a merge/transfer function at least you would have the choice whether to use it or not. :)

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#12 Vyger

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 12:42 AM

I'll be interested to see how such a conversion utility works if it is released. I honestly would be pretty nervous about using it for fear of unintended consequences.

The speed way as I described how I done it is search the "old Place list" for containing for example "cemetery" and you get a list of every Place containing cemetery.

Then scan down through the list verifying everything presented is a genuine cemetery with the "Place Details" the left most comma delimited portion.

Unselect any that you would prefer to edit manually.

Press OK and the program would split each entry to Place Details, left of first comma and Place right of first comma.

I would say no one has a database that this would work 100% on without a few tweaks but it will cover in excess of 90% in my opinion.

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#13 TomH

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 07:29 AM

The speed way as I described how I done it is search the "old Place list" for containing for example "cemetery" and you get a list of every Place containing cemetery.

Then scan down through the list verifying everything presented is a genuine cemetery with the "Place Details" the left most comma delimited portion.

Unselect any that you would prefer to edit manually.

Press OK and the program would split each entry to Place Details, left of first comma and Place right of first comma.

I would say no one has a database that this would work 100% on without a few tweaks but it will cover in excess of 90% in my opinion.

A variant of this would be to search Place List for 'Jefferson County', return a sortable list of Places with the found words highlighted, checkboxes to select those to split everything to the left of the found words to Place Details (less trailing comma and spaces), the rest to Place...

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#14 Vyger

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:44 PM

A variant of this would be to search Place List for 'Jefferson County', return a sortable list of Places with the found words highlighted, checkboxes to select those to split everything to the left of the found words to Place Details (less trailing comma and spaces), the rest to Place...

Agreed, I think having the ability to search for items contained in the Place List and presenting the found set with select and edit options is key to managing large place lists.

Also the ability to geographically reverse the Place Listing on screen in the Place List would be a big help here also.

USA, Pennsylvania, Wayne Co., Damascus
USA, PA, Damascus

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#15 Renee Zamora

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:01 AM

Agreed, I think having the ability to search for items contained in the Place List and presenting the found set with select and edit options is key to managing large place lists.

Also the ability to geographically reverse the Place Listing on screen in the Place List would be a big help here also.

USA, Pennsylvania, Wayne Co., Damascus
USA, PA, Damascus

Confirming enhancement requests are in our tracking system.
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#16 TomH

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:00 PM

Splitting Places into Place and Place Details is an onerous job in RootsMagic: you have to edit every fact/event that used the original Place. Until RootsMagic comes up with a utility to make it easier to do, we need a better way. With some judicious SQLite queries and editing of RM's Place List, there is a faster, better way. See Places to Place Details Conversion

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#17 John James

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:40 PM

The RootsMagician is working on a utility to transfer place details out of the place field.

Take a look at my posting from 4 years ago concerning place reports.

Maybe Father Christmas will bring it :P